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Fairly certain LBS damaged my frame, am I crazy?

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Fairly certain LBS damaged my frame, am I crazy?

Old 09-21-20, 11:11 AM
  #76  
jadocs
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Originally Posted by xiaoman1
Op,
Your header asks did they do the damage and are you crazy....Why do you seem to be equivocating about whether or not the dents were not there when you brought it into the shop and wondering if it was something that you did on the way in. I think you would have noticed damage like that before you brought it in....you have the pics from a few days before you brought it in to be worked on....did you damage it, only you know if you mishandled it.
From all of your posts, it seems to me that the shop did the deed, not you.
For those of you that think a repair stand cant damage a frame, I want to post a few pics of a frame that one of my friends brought in for repair...I think an older Park Pro stand with the preset clamping etc.
The bike was "not" damaged when it was brought in and here are a few pics....I suspect as one other member mentioned that the damage occurred when using twisting force to remove the seatpost....either that or as others stated clamp force was set improperly for a different tube diameter.
IMHO no vacuum pressure from removing the seat post.
Here are some pics of my friend's bike....BTW he brought the damage to the LBS right away and they chalked it up to a new tech not familiar with vintage stuff and paid for a replacement Prologue frame.

Clamp installed incorrectly

same, same..torque force..I think you can see the 2 offset dents much worse than your frame experienced?

Make them take care of it.
Good Luck, Ben
This is like identical....

OP you as mentioned over and over, you need to have the "shop" show you how their equipment didn't do the damage since it is consistent (as shown above) with damage caused by monkeys doing bike repairs. Tell them it's for your own piece of mind. If the owner is reasonable as you say, this should not be a problem. Once it is shown that their equipment caused the damage...now it's their problem.

and for God's sake...learn to do simple repairs (even more complex repairs) yourself. Nobody is going to be as careful as you on your own equipment.
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Old 09-21-20, 11:15 AM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by jadocs
This is like identical....

OP you as mentioned over and over, you need to have the "shop" show you how their equipment didn't do the damage since it is consistent (as shown above) with damage caused by monkeys doing bike repairs. Tell them it's for your own piece of mind. If the owner is reasonable as you say, this should not be a problem. Once it is shown that their equipment caused the damage...now it's their problem.

and for God's sake...learn to do simple repairs (even more complex repairs) yourself. Nobody is going to be as careful as you on your own equipment.
^^^^
Make them do the right thing or let it go...time to move on.
Good Luck, Ben
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Old 09-21-20, 11:15 AM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by jadocs
and for God's sake...learn to do simple repairs (even more complex repairs) yourself. Nobody is going to be as careful as you on your own equipment.
this is somewhat off topic, but to be clear, the main issue is that I am in a shared apartment, and don't have any practical space to do anything other than simple fixes, especially things involving grease/oils which might damage carpeting, etc.
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Old 09-21-20, 12:02 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by sheddle
this is somewhat off topic, but to be clear, the main issue is that I am in a shared apartment, and don't have any practical space to do anything other than simple fixes, especially things involving grease/oils which might damage carpeting, etc.
Not having a good place to work on your bike IS hard and challenging, and I completely get that.

Good luck with resolving this and getting a good repair. That's a beautiful bike, and frankly I think a comparison of the work stand clamp and the damaged area is in order.
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Old 09-21-20, 12:30 PM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa
Was it RC in the UD?
I guess we'll never know...
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Old 09-21-20, 12:35 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by sheddle
this is somewhat off topic, but to be clear, the main issue is that I am in a shared apartment, and don't have any practical space to do anything other than simple fixes, especially things involving grease/oils which might damage carpeting, etc.
I get it...

Just don't let anyone take advantage of you. There's no reason why you should bear the brunt of something that is not your fault just because your worried about someone's else's feelings...who by the way has no consideration of yours.

Report back and let us know how it goes.
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Old 09-21-20, 12:36 PM
  #82  
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I just thought of how I might repair this to a bit greater level without damaging the paint.

After using a wooden dowel if such can be procured in the right size, I might use a good length of a cheap carbon post and force it in where the dents are.
And then leave it in there, to better hold the round shape without so much in the way of cold-working the metal. This I think would have the best chance of sparing the paint while actually reinforcing the tube from some of the cyclic stress that it will have to endure.

I actually came up with that idea as a reinforcement for a quite-thin butted seat tube that someone had drilled bottle cage holes into. I haven't done the work yet on the afflicted Bianchi Nuovo Racing, but I plan to add riv-nuts to the combined thickness of the seat tube and post remnant, to both hold it in place and to allow attaching a bottle cage properly.
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Old 09-21-20, 12:52 PM
  #83  
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I don't think leaving a piece of carbon fiber post in the seat tube is a good idea. Graphite is at the very top of the Galvanic Series and can corrode even stainless steel if in contact and in the presence of moisture (of which there is plenty in the Seattle area). This appears as a problem in the sailing world where carbon fiber spars will corrode away the stainless steel terminations on the shrouds and stays that hold the mast upright - with dangerous and expensive consequences!
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Old 09-21-20, 01:02 PM
  #84  
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If the damage is on two sides, it would be difficult to explain it without a clamp? I mean, if you banged it on something, it would be on one side only, no?
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Old 09-21-20, 01:07 PM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by sheddle
Suing them isn't an option, I'm a poor bastard who spends all his money on old bikes.
It's Seattle...it certainly appears there are people there, locals or visitors, who would burn down the shop for you....
But I think that's a little extreme.

I just don't see how you'd have NOT noticed those dents if they were there before.
The damage looks like something I'd have done, having the jaws set too tight and then pulling the lever to clamp it in.
Then "oops, too late." Do not ask me how I know this.
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Old 09-21-20, 01:24 PM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa
I guess we'll never know...
I am certain it is. I am making some assumptions here, but R&E seem to be in the OP's orbit. I think the OP is trying to not besmirch the reputation of the shop until the final conclusion of this saga, but I am already disappointed. I think they should own up to this and hopefully they will. @sheddle, confrontation can be uncomfortable, but all the times that I've overcome that fear and calmly confronted that person or company (after much mental prep about what I was going to say, of course ), it's usually worked out in my favor or at the very least I feel good about it because I did all I could to advocate for myself. I think having R&E look at this (maybe don't tell them what shop worked on it), getting their assessment and then going back to the "shop that shall not be named" and speaking to the owner is a good idea. Hopefully they could make you whole with a equivalent new frame if they have one laying around, cash or at least shop credit equivalent to what they would sell a Raleigh Carlton 531 frame.
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Old 09-21-20, 01:33 PM
  #87  
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First I want to say how sorry I feel for you, having just picking up the exact same bike in the exact same color a few months ago it is a nice bike. I work as a bike mechanic part time at a shop and at home full time and there is no way I or any other employees would have checked that bike in without making sure you knew that dent was there period! If they ( Op's Shop ) didn't do that by the time it got to the repair stand one of the mechanics who was about to repair your bike should have stopped in his tracks and made it a point that you knew ( you said you were there in the shop) that damage was there before they started the work. As a Bike mechanic I also can't understand what in gods name were they doing to this bike while it was in the stand, I have the big Park Pro Stand and it would require a lot of force to do that damage, with holding the bike in one hand and clamping the stand with the other I wouldn't be able to do it without putting my body into it..

Glenn
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Old 09-21-20, 01:39 PM
  #88  
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Now I'm going to take a tube into the bike shop and see what it looks like when an evt is applied too strenuously.

I did this with a park stand on the first frame I ever build. It's easier with a Park though, it's not that easy to tell how tight it's going to be when you adjust the turnbuckle.

I have a tool that's pretty much just a giant quill that would take this out. Only works on seat tubes, obviously, but they get their share of dents.
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Old 09-21-20, 01:43 PM
  #89  
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Seat post stuck damage

For what it's worth.If your seat post is stuck big-time and you secure the post in a vice and use the frame as an extension for leverage this is what can happen. If you aren't paying attention the gorilla thinks the stuck post is moving so it twist it the other way to get some continuity and presto! - you have a collapsed seat tube with no scratch marks and opposing depressions as a result of the twist one way and then the other way.
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Old 09-21-20, 02:01 PM
  #90  
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90 posts....bring it in already.
IMO, I don't think the Forum can do anymore to help you....
Ben
P.S. Send the owner the link to this post.....

Last edited by xiaoman1; 09-21-20 at 02:23 PM.
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Old 09-21-20, 02:03 PM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by sheddle
this is somewhat off topic, but to be clear, the main issue is that I am in a shared apartment, and don't have any practical space to do anything other than simple fixes, especially things involving grease/oils which might damage carpeting, etc.
I’m getting the distinct whiff of passive-aggressiveness here. We’ve given you advice and you’ve tied us up for 4 pages now. When push comes to shove, the shop is either going to come clean... or they’ll say, “We don’t care how much that dent looks like clamp damage. Anyone could have done it but it wasn’t us.”

Your move.
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Old 09-21-20, 02:18 PM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by conspiratemus1
I’m getting the distinct whiff of passive-aggressiveness here. We’ve given you advice and you’ve tied us up for 4 pages now. When push comes to shove, the shop is either going to come clean... or they’ll say, “We don’t care how much that dent looks like clamp damage. Anyone could have done it but it wasn’t us.”

Your move.
There is nothing to be done until I get a dollar value estimate for the damage, on Tuesday. I'm not sure what you're talking about here, this was an off-topic reply to people asking why I took my bike to a shop in the first place.
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Old 09-21-20, 02:40 PM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by sheddle
this was an off-topic reply to people asking why I took my bike to a shop in the first place.
Sort of/not really. I assumed you did your own work after I sold those Suntour hubs to you.

But thanks for the clarification on your workshop issues. Makes sense now. And good luck.

btw, RC in the UD is my favorite shop of all time. Of course, I usually do all my own work. They've knurled a fork crown, cut a steerer, and pressed a crown race for me in the past.
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Old 09-21-20, 02:56 PM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa
Sort of/not really. I assumed you did your own work after I sold those Suntour hubs to you.

But thanks for the clarification on your workshop issues. Makes sense now. And good luck.

btw, RC in the UD is my favorite shop of all time. Of course, I usually do all my own work. They've knurled a fork crown, cut a steerer, and pressed a crown race for me in the past.
Oh yah. I do some work, but mainly basic stuff like part installations/cleaning/etc, not wheelbuilding. Was going to go over to CC in Bainbridge to check out their selection of vintage rims at some point.
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Old 09-21-20, 03:43 PM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by sheddle
this is somewhat off topic, but to be clear, the main issue is that I am in a shared apartment, and don't have any practical space to do anything other than simple fixes, especially things involving grease/oils which might damage carpeting, etc.
I'm local, have a concrete floor in my large work area and possess skills/tools/experience. Hit me up via PM if you need maintenance assist

DD
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Old 09-21-20, 06:30 PM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa
Sort of/not really. I assumed you did your own work after I sold those Suntour hubs to you.

But thanks for the clarification on your workshop issues. Makes sense now. And good luck.

btw, RC in the UD is my favorite shop of all time. Of course, I usually do all my own work. They've knurled a fork crown, cut a steerer, and pressed a crown race for me in the past.
I bought 99% of my bike gear there back in my Seattle messenger days. It's a great place to pick up used stuff, luckily I do my own work and never needed them to fix anything.
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Old 09-21-20, 06:51 PM
  #97  
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Too late for the OP, but here's a tool I bought from The Savings and Loan for $65



Expands in your seat tube just like a quill stem in your steerer. Your bike stand clamps onto the bit sticking up.
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Old 09-21-20, 07:22 PM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes
It's Seattle...it certainly appears there are people there, locals or visitors, who would burn down the shop for you.....
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Old 09-21-20, 07:28 PM
  #99  
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Originally Posted by gugie
Too late for the OP, but here's a tool I bought from The Savings and Loan for $65

Expands in your seat tube just like a quill stem in your steerer. Your bike stand clamps onto the bit sticking up.
I wonder if a tool like that can be used to un-dent a seat tube from the inside?
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Old 09-21-20, 07:44 PM
  #100  
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Originally Posted by bulgie
I can't tell what you mean by two more dents in back – are the back dents higher up? That could be from closing the clamp of a bike stand while the bike is at an angle to the jaws.
This, plus my previous observation that when clamped at the seat tube, a bike is unbalanced, and will pitch forward -- if that happened while getting the bike into a stand, while not paying enough attention, with clamp tilted while tightening using a tool that has too much leverage, well, there you have it.

The good news is that the top of the seat tube is not butted, so it has the same inside diameter all the way down to the butt at the bottom bracket. Though I'm not sure, I suspect that some sort of ram should be able to take out the dents largely from the inside, with rolling on the exterior, to take care of it from two directions. That would be easier than trying to do it all from the outside. Just have to make sure that whatever implement is used has provision for whacking it upward, or a hole through for inserting a rod to twist the ram while pushing upward, and not have it left in the tube like a stuck seat post.

Myself, I'd be leery about using an expanding device; better something that's the right diameter and smooth without offsets for several inches (like the length of the dents at least) maybe with a taper at least on the lower end.

Last edited by Charles Wahl; 09-21-20 at 07:53 PM.
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