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Raleigh Inter Course

Old 07-20-20, 12:34 PM
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daka
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Raleigh Inter Course

Just askin', but imagine you had a straight but cosmetically challenged '74 Raleigh International frame and fork in your size but didn't have a garage full of Campagnolo Nuovo Record components to build it up into a functioning bike. Also imagine that, as a longtime accumulator of Raleigh Super Course bikes and pieces, you did have enough Super Course stuff to build the aforementioned International frameset into a rideable machine. Would you be sent immediately to the Spanish Inquisition thread for creating an International with a complement of french components rather than Italian? Build and be banished? Or leave an International frameset to collect dust while hanging in a dark corner?
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Old 07-20-20, 01:09 PM
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I say build it up - but - only if you're willing to get custom decals made for a "Raleigh Intercourse" (catchy name).

Ps wait until April 1st and post it as "an unusual Raleigh" and ask if anyone has seen one before and watch for the replies......
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Old 07-20-20, 01:12 PM
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This comment may not be appreciated but....

I purchased a used Pinarello Montello that was equipped with Shimano 74xx except the Chorus Headset. All was original to the bike!
The Trek 610 was built with parts that were 10 years older and much higher end then what it was spec'd for.
The De Rosa has 10+year newer parts on it, some 15 years newer.
Build and go ride!
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Old 07-20-20, 01:39 PM
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It's been done


photo and constructeur work courtesy of Peter Weigle
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Old 07-20-20, 01:50 PM
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Hmmm, I see..... But that fork doesn't look like it came from either an International or a Super Course. More likely a Competition. Probably a '73, because of the Capella lugs. So can it be really be a legitimate "InterCourse"?
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Old 07-20-20, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by daka
Hmmm, I see..... But that fork doesn't look like it came from either an International or a Super Course. More likely a Competition. Probably a '73, because of the Capella lugs. So can it be really be a legitimate "InterCourse"?
'73 Super Course came with Capella lugs, but I agree that fork is from a Competition.
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Old 07-20-20, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by gugie

photo and constructeur work courtesy of Peter Weigle
Oh geez, it would be Peter Weigle. He has all the old man jokes doesn't he! Does this Raleigh have the steel balls under the pump peg, as below?
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Old 07-20-20, 02:40 PM
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I saw this over on r/bicycling recently and thought, poor man's International:


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Old 07-20-20, 02:59 PM
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Build it. Huret works just as well, if not better.
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Old 07-20-20, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by daka
Just askin', but imagine you had a straight but cosmetically challenged '74 Raleigh International frame and fork in your size but didn't have a garage full of Campagnolo Nuovo Record components to build it up into a functioning bike. Also imagine that, as a longtime accumulator of Raleigh Super Course bikes and pieces, you did have enough Super Course stuff to build the aforementioned International frameset into a rideable machine. Would you be sent immediately to the Spanish Inquisition thread for creating an International with a complement of french components rather than Italian? Build and be banished? Or leave an International frameset to collect dust while hanging in a dark corner?
I would build it up and enjoy the frame. As opportunities come around you can go for the higher end components.

If you have a vintage set of Super Course wheels, they should have alloy rims and high-flange quick-release hubs. Watch out for the BB threading, headset dimensions and steer tube threads as you assemble it with Super Course pieces.
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Old 07-20-20, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by gugie

photo and constructeur work courtesy of Peter Weigle

Sexy bike!
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Old 07-20-20, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by non-fixie
Build it. Huret works just as well, if not better.
That has been my experience. Simplex too, except that plastic parts that have been exposed to 45 years of UV radiation are not to be trusted, IMHO.

I'm thinking of using a Duopar ECO that I already have along with a Nervar Star that has 38/52 chainwheels. With a 14-32 or even 34 tooth freewheel I could finally ride some low gears!
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Old 07-20-20, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Road Fan
I would build it up and enjoy the frame. As opportunities come around you can go for the higher end components.

If you have a vintage set of Super Course wheels, they should have alloy rims and high-flange quick-release hubs. Watch out for the BB threading, headset dimensions and steer tube threads as you assemble it with Super Course pieces.
The only original Campy parts remaining with the frame/fork are the headset and the seat post bolt, so the fork threading is not a problem. Super Course bottom brackets are hit-or-miss in my experience. Of the five Super Courses that have passed through this household, only two of them have had Raleigh-threaded bottom brackets. The International has British threading as does the Nervar Star bottom bracket that I would use.
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Old 07-20-20, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ascherer
I saw this over on r/bicycling recently and thought, poor man's International:


Interesting that someone had a Super Course frame and a garage full of International parts. (Super Inter Course?)
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Old 07-20-20, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by daka
Would you be sent immediately to the Spanish Inquisition thread for creating an International with a complement of french components rather than Italian? Build and be banished? Or leave an International frameset to collect dust while hanging in a dark corner?
I'm probably not the best person to give advice on orthodoxy, but I don't see even a remote problem with this. In his page on Internationals Sheldon Brown noted, "In the late '70s, the International's design was extremely unfashionable, and many of them were 'parted out' for their Campagnolo goodies." It stands to reason that they must have seen common use with other parts because until recently who would have bothered to source NR parts to rebuild one of these frames. I'd guess SunTour components would have been more common, but if Huret is what you've got, why not Huret?

My '74 International is currently built with modern Athena components (see also, my previous remarks about me not being a good person to give advice on orthodoxy).



I've also got a '69 Competition (the "pre-International International") with a mix of SunTour, Specialized, and Tektro components.



My personal feeling about the Nuovo Record group is that while it's obviously iconic, it's so iconic that it ends up being the default group for every nice bike from the period. Consequently, I prefer to reserve it for bikes that just wouldn't seem right with anything else, which generally means a very select group of Italian racers. The International came with mostly NR components new, but it certainly isn't the kind of bike that must have NR or even Campy components.
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Old 07-20-20, 03:47 PM
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Assuming the RD hangs with a claw? If not, would the pivot stop be in the correct place?
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Old 07-20-20, 04:02 PM
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You might be screwed if you take it to eroica?
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Old 07-20-20, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by USAZorro
Assuming the RD hangs with a claw? If not, would the pivot stop be in the correct place?
One reason to use the Duopar- they have a stop that can be used in two positions 90 deg. apart so that they can be used with either Campy style or Huret dropouts. I do have the "converter" to use a Huret Success on a Campy dropout but that is already in use on my other International. I suppose I could put the Campy NR rear changer back on the "pretty" Internaional and free up the Success for this build but then I would lose the opportunity for some low gears.
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Old 07-20-20, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy_K
I'm probably not the best person to give advice on orthodoxy, but I don't see even a remote problem with this. In his page on Internationals Sheldon Brown noted, "In the late '70s, the International's design was extremely unfashionable, and many of them were 'parted out' for their Campagnolo goodies." It stands to reason that they must have seen common use with other parts because until recently who would have bothered to source NR parts to rebuild one of these frames. I'd guess SunTour components would have been more common, but if Huret is what you've got, why not Huret?

My '74 International is currently built with modern Athena components (see also, my previous remarks about me not being a good person to give advice on orthodoxy).



I've also got a '69 Competition (the "pre-International International") with a mix of SunTour, Specialized, and Tektro components.



My personal feeling about the Nuovo Record group is that while it's obviously iconic, it's so iconic that it ends up being the default group for every nice bike from the period. Consequently, I prefer to reserve it for bikes that just wouldn't seem right with anything else, which generally means a very select group of Italian racers. The International came with mostly NR components new, but it certainly isn't the kind of bike that must have NR or even Campy components.
Am I correct in assuming that the '69 Competition is a pretty rare machine? And it appears that your '74 International is a bike in your collection that DOESN'T have a triple?
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Old 07-20-20, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by nlerner
'73 Super Course came with Capella lugs, but I agree that fork is from a Competition.
So now we have an intercourse competition. What's the trophy look like?
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Old 07-20-20, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Pcampeau
Interesting that someone had a Super Course frame and a garage full of International parts. (Super Inter Course?)
Looks to me like they’ve been in for a while, my impression is that they were put on the bike BITD. Of course I have no way of knowing. Works for me!
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Old 07-20-20, 04:19 PM
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My 74 International is going Suntour first time around.

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Old 07-20-20, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by daka
Am I correct in assuming that the '69 Competition is a pretty rare machine?
It seems to be. I'm not sure why. Once the decals are gone, there would be nothing left to identify it as a Competition, so there may be more out there that people just think are Internationals. I've only seen pictures of a couple others. It may be that being early in the bike boom there just weren't many sold in the U.S..

FWIW, it originally had the plastic Simplex derailleurs, perhaps the most ubiquitous components of the time.

Originally Posted by daka
And it appears that your '74 International is a bike in your collection that DOESN'T have a triple?
Yes, one of the few. This is the only one with a 50-34 crank, and I have plans to remove that soon because I really don't like it. The Competition renders this redundant, so I'll probably look for someone to pass it on to. That person may or may not rebuild it with Nuovo Record components.
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Old 07-20-20, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy_K
Yes, one of the few. This is the only one with a 50-34 crank, and I have plans to remove that soon because I really don't like it. The Competition renders this redundant, so I'll probably look for someone to pass it on to. That person may or may not rebuild it with Nuovo Record components.
Hmm, this popped up on CL, Andy: https://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/bo...162613631.html
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Old 07-20-20, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by nlerner
'73 Super Course came with Capella lugs, but I agree that fork is from a Competition.
Neal, c'mon. You should know better.

Raleigh mixed and matched so many bits that maybe that fortnight most went out with sloping crowns.
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