Ross520

So, I decided to start rebuilding the first bike I ever bought (a 1994 Cannondale T400 I bought on CL). I put a bunch of new parts on it (NOS shifters, crankset, derailleurs, etc.) the other day and as soon as I finished tuning the front and rear mech, I took her on a cruise around the neighborhood.

Now this was my first time riding a DT shifter bike in a while, as my other two bikes have integrated shifters. As I began my ride, I immediately noticed how much of a pain-in-the-*** it is to have to reach down to shift. I didn't remember it being that bad. I mean, it was tolerable for a neighbor ride, but that would have been awful for anything serious.

Why is it that so many folks on here seem so content with their DT shifting bicycles? Have you ever given integrated shifters a chance? Is it a "get off my lawn" thing? Is it simply just nostalgia? Is it more fun for you because it keeps you more engaged?

I can could definitely understand the last one, given my preference for manual transmission cars, even though they're objectively slower and require far more effort.

Thoughts?

DorkDisk

DT is simpler and weighs less, friction front is always better IMO. I prefer STI/ergo but DT shifters remain a good solution.

hillyman

Only bad thing about DT shifters is the Italian Team will reach over and put you in the little cog

shelbyfv

I don't see a lot of interest here outside of C&V. Certainly easy and cheap to switch to bar ends or something like this https://www.gevenalle.com/product/audax/

big chainring 

50 yrs and countless miles with downtube shifters.
I had one bike with brifters, kept reaching down to shift gears.

Miele Man

Hmmm, the appeal of downtube shifters for some people?

I like downtube shifters. I like barend shifters. I light Campagnolo 2001 Ergo Mirage shifters.

When riding on the drops it's an easy,smooth movement of the hand to my downtube shifter. In some ways it's easier than moving my hand up to engage the button on my Campagnolo Ergo shifter. I think a lot of it is what you're used to.

I debated putting Ergos on my touring bike because either a friction compatible barend shifter of friction compatible downtube shifter would allow me to use ANY new or used rear wheel if I trashed a wheel on a tour. My barend shifters work either index or friction. Ditto for some of my downtube shifters. A couple of my bikes have friction only downtube shifters but I'm so used to those that it's almost like using index shifters.

I think that perhaps the bigger the frame the harder it might be to reach a downtube shifter.

Advantages of Brifters and Ergos are that you can easily shift even standing and you don't need to remove a hand from the handlebar in order to execute a shift. that comes in extremely handy when struggling up a hill and fighting strong gusty cross-winds and I need to shift. It's why I did put the Campagnolo Ergo Mirage onto my road touring bike.

Cheers

tkamd73 

Ride it some more! Good analogy with the car though. Definitely not as quick, but more fun, and rewarding.
Tim

livedarklions

There was a remarkably silly thread about a year ago where a guy predicted dt shifters were about to stage a comeback.

People seemed to fall into four camps. A very small number were familiar with both and preferred dt to integrated. A much bigger number use both on different bikes. An even bigger number had used both and now have no interest in dt. And finally, a big group of "wait, they put shifters on the down tube?"

Miele Man

I've done that if I've ridden my downtube shifter bikes a lot and then rode my Ergo equipped bike. Especially if it's a long ride and I'm getting tired. Reach down to shift, can't find the shifter, glance down, no shifter, then remember it's my Ergo bike.

Cheers

Moe Zhoost

I would put myself in a fifth group: those who just ride happily with what's on the bike. I have bikes with DT shifters, bar ends, trigger shifters, twist shifters, indexed thumb shifters, and one that shifts with pedals. I like the feel of all of them, though the twist shifters on my trike are wearing and I'll probably replace them with thumb levers. I can certainly see how someone who has never used DT shifters would find them burdensome. I've used them for many decades so they feel natural. Best setup IMO is half-step gearing. It reduces the duplication of ratios, though it does require you to exercise your left hand a bit more.

Road Fan

I’m definitely in the second group, have both, like both. One benefit of friction shifting is much less constraint due to component compatibility. Example: my Masi needs a 6-speed 13-26 tooth rear gearset, to use the full range of the derailleur and keep its vintage nature. I have one such, with worn teeth, which needs replacement. It just threads on to the hub, so I can use any other brand level, or vintage of freewheel. Contrast my retro roadie frames where the brand of the shifters (Campy Ergopower in these cases) mostly dictates all other drivetrain choices. There are some surprising cross-compatibilities, but usually involve compromises.

BobbyG

I commute through a hilly town (Colorado Springs). I am always hunting gears and fidgiting. For many years all I had was my one 21-speed MTB with trigger shifters right where the grips are, so I could shift without moving a hand.

Then I acquired an old 12-speed road bike with DT shifters. I had to think if it was safe to remove a hand to shift...plus it took a little longer to shift so I had to be deliberate about it.

Then I got a bike with brifters and I hunt and fidgit on that bike.

Then last fall I converted the MTB to drop bars with bar-end shifters, and I had to think about moving a hand to shift (although not as far as with DT shifters).

In hilly terrain (or on a day with strong variable winds) having shifters at your fingers is very nice.

But downtube shifters (and other "remote" shifters) are nice in a way, because they make you think whether a shift is necessary.

And now that I'm almost 60, I find reaching down to the downtube to shift helps prevent a stiff back from being in the same position too long...especially on longer rides. And that's why I'm thinking of installng some vintage "lever shifters", so I can incorporate even more stretching into my riding.




And then there's always the possibility of "flip-flop" hubs which would require even more bending and stretching to shift, although those shifts take a really long time and require both hands off the bars.

2cam16

I have both and like them both. I don't mind reaching down. It's second nature to me.

gear64

I've only had one bike made after 2000. A trek MTB. It had indexed shifters on flat bar. Those shifters have by magnitudes less miles, but have needed more attention than all my other DT bikes combined. Maybe they gotten better, more reliable over the years, but my current bikes serve me just fine. No need to spend money on something I don't need. I don't ride competitively or even in groups so have no performance requirements. I also just have a greater appreciation for older bikes aesthetically. Maybe just a generational thing, but it is what it is, no new bikes or modernization projects in the near future for me.

rosefarts

I've ridden in a pretty tight peloton as recently as February with downtube shifters. I typically ride Campy Ergo's.

It's possible, fine even. There's no doubt though, that I had less control than with Ergo's. It changes my riding style, I find myself pedaling faster or slower to make up for times I would have shifted on a newer bike.

For club rides, it's fun once in a while. If it's a good retro bike, it's also a great conversation starter. There is no current advantage. The weight thing is a non issue, since it's possible to build an electronic shifting and hydro disc brake bike at or below the legal limit.

Ross520

Great responses folks!

Hoping it gets a bit less annoying as time goes on and I re-adjust to suicide shifting.

theDirtyLemon

You're out of practice. Keep at it, and you'll find the knack.
It helps if you are holding your torso up with your core muscles so you can isolate your arm movement from your steering movements. Then, if you drop your arm in a smooth arc, your hand should fall right onto the shift levers.
​​​​​

livedarklions

What I love about this conversation is there no single right answer, it's all about habits and preferences. What got very silly about the previous thread was people trying to convince the others they were right.

DT shifting is a niche preference at this point. I like that some people still enjoy it, I'm just not one of them.

livedarklions

A. Yup, they got better.
​​​​​​B. If I hadn't gotten used to on the bar shifting, I'd probably still happily be using dt, but I totally lost the habit about 1989. I rode a dt shifting bike a couple years ago just far enough to decide I don't want to relearn skills I haven't used in three decades.
C. Esthetic preferences are important. They keep us happy doing this stuff.

veganbikes

I have one bike with downtube shifters, the reason I keep them is they are Dura-Ace 7400 and I have the 7400 brake levers and cannot fathom replacing them even though I love my Gevenalle levers on my touring bike, which would be perfect in this application. Aside from that two other geared road bikes are STI levers.

I will say I do not like STI levers because the brake lever is a shift lever. Di2 solves that problem but can't Di2 8 speed Tricolor. I don't like DoubleTap but love the feel of SRAM levers (why I have them on both of my fixed gear/single speed bikes). Campy Ergo levers I haven't really tried but you have to go Campy and since they don't do wide range stuff it doesn't work well for any upcoming builds I want to do. I like the Gevenalle for my touring bike but would love to see a version with return to center levers like the SRAM or old Zipp bar ends for TT bikes.

I think if someone came up with a friction R2C STI style lever for the front derailleur I think more people might go STI some people just love a friction shift at the front.

Cyclist0108

I went from downtube friction shifters to Di2 (two different bikes). Then I "upgraded" the bike with the friction shifters to Campy integrated brake/shifters. I do miss the downtube shifters, even though my arms are rather too short to be comfortable with them.

I have bar-end shifters on a different bike. Friction shifting for the front is definitely something that only electronic shifting has been able to improve upon.

Reynolds 

I have bikes with DT, Ergo and trigger shifters, and had some with twist shifters too. All have their pros and cons IMO, but what I like most is the crisp, short travel feel of indexed DT and the versatility of friction DT (Shimano DT lets you choose).

Bill in VA

I had that problem for the first 100 miles on the brifters. Now I do not. However, I find I can get back on on a DT bike and is fits like an old glove.

It is like a stick shift vehicle. My father forced me to learn on a stick. I drove a stick for 25 years, then went to two automatic trucks, back to a stick SAAB, and now have an auto w AWD. I will always be able to drive a stick, but will never buy one again.

Phil_gretz

My sense, after having ridden countless miles using different styles of shifting both in groups and solo, is that downtube shifting requires better anticipation, superior balance and athleticism, and finer motor control when the body is otherwise under stress. They're apparently not for everyone.

There was a time when downtube shifters were basically all we had, so we learned them.

I really appreciate STIs, though. They're peachy, for the reasons given above. I like bar ends, too.