episodic

I don't have a truing stand, so I brought my bike by a shop in a neighboring town to be trued since I was there.

When truing the front wheel, the shop guy said, ' You have a little play in your hub '.

I told him (proudly) that what everything says online - you should have a little play in your hub off the bike that should disappear when you lock the quick release down. The play was apparent in the truing stand - about 1mm side to side if you grabbed the wheel and rocked back and forth. When we locked the quick release back down, there was indeed no play. I had recently put new bearings and grease in my hub (about 2 weeks ago I guess.)

He said something like even if you can't see the side to side play when in the quick release there is some 'up and down' play that you can't perceive and that if it were him, he'd tighten it more. He would not want any play off the bike.

I spent a long time getting it where I could see it wiggle off the bike and where it didn't wiggle on the bike locked down, so up until tonight I was proud of myself.

I thanked him and left. So who is right? Anything else I should make sure of?

531phile 

Good question. I'm on the no play when spinning off the bike camp. If you tighten the hub good enough it shouldn't get any tighter when you compress it with the quick release. So no play for me.

episodic

This is what I went by, 4th paragraph up from the bottom.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/hubs.html

Quoted from the site: (Credit to Sheldon Brown)
"No binding with no play is the proper adjustment for solid-axle hubs, but if you have quick-release hubs, there is an additional, complicating factor. When you tighten the quick-release lever, it tends to compress the axle just a little bit. If the adjustment was just right with the wheel on your bench, it will be too tight when the wheel is installed and the quick release tightened. For this reason, quick-release hubs should be adjusted so that there is a very sight amount of play in the axle when the wheel is not installed."

Also on this page under cone adjustment:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cone-adjustment.html

531phile 

Sheldon knew more than I will ever know so go with what he said.

mechBgon

Generally speaking, cup-&-cone hubs do get tighter due to axle compression (assuming they're not bolt-on). Some moreso than others. If you adjust your hub to be "just right" without axle compression, then clamp your skewer, it's likely you'll have observably poorer coasting performance if you nudge the wheel and watch it drift to a halt.

episodic

That is something I did too.

When it is off the bike, I observed the side to side swing from letting the wheel go with the reflector at top - and I counted the side to side swings till it came to a rest.
On the bike when I clamp - I had just about exactly the same side to side swings before it stopped.

Yes, I spent almost 4 hours doing this

531phile 

I guess I've been doing this wrong. I'll do it the Sheldon method and see what's up. It is just going to add an extra step to this process.

zacster

I don't agree. I've always had hubs adjusted "just right" with no play that spun freely with the quick release on. I now have a pair of Easton Ascents that have a little play in the hub that doesn't go away with the quick release all the way tight. So a little play will still be there, and no play will spin freely. Just my experience.

operator

Sheldons blanket statement for QR hubs is wrong. The right answer is:

QR hubs should only present itself as loose when off the bike when the act of tightening the QR skewer changes bearing preload. Plenty of new generation, cartridge road hubs will NOT change bearing adjustment when QR'ed.

Some wheels like mavic, have on the bike hub adjustment, while some like the newest dura ace digital lock hubs do not require any 'free play' when off the bike to be properly adjusted.

jeepr

I leave no play in mine.

fuzz2050

While Sheldon is right, he's right only if you are very very good at adjusting your hubs. From my experience, the extra little bit of tightening that comes from the compression of the axle doesn't make up for the somewhat less than perfect job of adjusting the cones that I did.

If you can get the axle adjustment pretty darn good without the quick release, it will still be pretty good with the quick release compressed. Unless you can get it just so, I don't know if it's worth fretting about.

mechBgon

I also know that not everyone clamps their skewers to the same tension, and that not all skewers have the same clamping capabilities, so there's bound to be some variance in peoples' experiences with this one.

episodic

The hubs in question are cup/cone/ and bearing. They are shimano deore hubs on a SurlyCross Check - so not talking about cartridge bearings.

episodic

So should I tighten my hubs more if I have no shaking side to side when I'm clamped ?

mechBgon

If it were me, I'd leave it like you have it. BTW, if you haven't done so already, I suggest giving the driveside cone and locknut a lockdown check... I've seen a pattern of Deore-level hubs whose driveside locknuts loosen up, enough that I check them any time I see one. Unfortunately you'll need to back off the non-driveside cone to get your cone wrench onto the driveside cone

FastJake

Nope, you're all set. Although much of what has been said may sound confusing, the bottom line is that if the wheel doesn't shake when it's tightened down you're good to go. Sounds like you got the bearing preload set perfectly, with a little looseness when the wheel is off the bike (for a cup and cone bearing.)

Doug64

Checkout the park tool site to see how to preload quick release equiped hubs when adjusting them. It leaves a little play, but is gone when skewer is tightened. It only takes about 10 minutes using their tecnique.
https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-...and-adjustment

A 9 or 10mm box end wrench can be used as a substitute using the bike's drop out.

JonathanGennick 

I aim for no play. My wheels spin freely when clamped, and no differently than when not clamped. I have had no problems with bearings or races or cones wearing out.

Honestly, I believe the "leave a little play" rule appeals to those who over-obsess about their bike parts and like to regale others with their secret knowledge of bicycle mechanics. In practice there is a margin for error. If the wheel spins freely on the bike, then it's good.

Discliamer: The above is my opinion and lots of people disagree w/it.

relyt

No play when off the bike for me. I have some old, old hubs that were adjusted that way and still work fine. A little bit of bearing preload never hurt anyone.

davidad

Doesn't the hub in those wheels use radial bearings? Different animal from cup and cone and requires a different adjustment.

unterhausen

I can't imagine that the amount of compression of a properly adjusted cone/locknut is enough to give you noticeable play off the bike. I have always adjusted the hub so there is no play

davidad

You get the proper preload with a little play that goes away when the QR is closed properly.
https://draco.nac.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8c.7.html

davidad

The newer shimano hubs with the oversized Aluminum axle need a preload before the QR is closed because those axles don't compress.

mechBgon

My Shimano XT wheelset (WH-M775) use aluminum axles, and they actually compress a great deal. As operator mentioned, Shimano's latest Dura-Ace level hubs do have a system that addresses that trait.

davidad

I am surprized to hear that. I thought that the over size axle didn't compress.
You are right according to Park tool. https://www.fromsportcom.com/v-2/6/20/v-262001.html Bottom of page.