Randybb

I like the way you think. There needs to be more people like you.

Rollfast

I am as horrified as you about this, but it seems that there are maybe half a dozen different threads on various forums about this same incident. Could we try to search to find if there is a thread already posted before starting more? I do realize that the number of threads indicates what an uproar there is about it and I share your outrage.

KD5NRH

My experience in Dallas carried this to the extreme; even on Friday or Saturday night, when most live bands start at 9PM, if you miss the 10:15 bus, the next one won't be along until sometime around 7AM. That means you're either fighting for a cab or driving. And yet DART used to advertise itself as such a wonderful alternative to driving drunk.

TrojanHorse

Uber! If they haven't been run out of town by the taxi lobby yet, of course.

There are only a handful of US cities where public transportation is a legitimate option.

KD5NRH

Didn't exist at the time, and according to a friend who drives for them, Dallas is cracking down on the drivers for being an "unlicensed taxi service." She has her passengers sit up front if they're going anywhere inside the Dallas city limits.

Sy Reene

Indeed, 2 of the killed were over 70, and 2 others were in their mid-50s.

Campag4life

Not sure about that Merlin. Any links to that dynamic?
Thanks.

Campag4life

No. I don't read other forums.

exime

Here is a link to the pictures and names of the cyclists:


Pictured: The five 'Chain Gang' cyclists killed

headstrongpkm

This is absolutely horrible. Road biking has been a great passion of mine and I have perfectly understood and accepted the risks involved. But sometimes events like these make you stop again and think hard, especially for a young father with a wife and 3 year old daughter. I do my biking in a car-centric city with poor public transportation and this makes it even more worrying. Eventually I think all of us will continue on, albeit with caution. But then again I don't think there is anything more we can do.

RIP to the cyclists.

Rollfast

They've already combined three other threads into on in A&S, and I would encourage you to check out the rest of the site anyway.

I think there ought to be one sitewide sticky for discussing this, as it's probsbly the biggest topic we've had in years.

Inpd

Well said and I am in a similar boat.

But you can take all the caution you want but it won't help a drunk, texting or distracted rider plowing into you.

mcours2006

Every time something like this happens it makes us pause and reflect upon what we're doing. Yes, as tragic as it is this kind of thing is actually quite rare. Vehicular traffic deaths are far more common, and yet we don't think twice about getting behind the wheel whenever we hear about a traffic fatality. If we were being rational we should be more afraid of getting in the car, or worse, getting into the passenger seat of that car, than saddling a bike. But of course we are emotional, and at times very irrational, beings and instead we think that could have been me, and it could be me the next time I go down that road that I normally ride on.

So we get too crazy here and sell our bikes let's put this tragedy into perspective.

BillyD

This is the busiest of all the forums. It won't hurt anything to leave this one here.

Campag4life

This dynamic will change with time due to needless carnage on American roads but change will not come fast enough. Technology WILL reduce deaths due to alcohol just like airbags in aggragate...excepting Takata's unfortunate involvement...have saved lives. AI, driverless cars....alcohol sensing ignition....many ways to reduce the risk and thousands of lives lost on American roads each year. AI can even detect drivers that are sleep deprived...erratic driving habits, thereby disabling cars and reducing speed. Human nature won't change much because we won't evolve much in the next couple hundred years.

As to quitting cycling due to risk, more than a few have. Few love motorcycles and fast cars...and fast bicycles more than me. I quit riding motorcycles because I had seen too much. Too many poor drivers. I really try to limit my time of riding my bike on busy roads. A numbers game. Better to be lucky than good.

merlinextraligh

this link is a little old but it shows less than 7% of deaths from the bike being hit from behind (including cases where the bike swerved into the car)
Is Cycling Dangerous? -- The Risk of Bicycle Use -- Accidents, Fatalities, Injuries, and Benefits

I believe the data Ken cited is from the NHTSA Fatality Analysis Reporting System, and I'm pretty sure those percentages have stayed fairly consistent over time. But I didn't bother to go back and find links. I've posted this data in other threads here over the years, so they're somewhere on BF

People have a perception that it is much more common to get hit in the rear by a car than it its. That's likely because that accident is largely uncontrollable by the cyclist and makes people fearful.

In reality, about 700 cyclists in the US die in accidents each year. Almost a third of those people are intoxicated. A good percentage of them were riding the wrong way, and or riding without lights at night.

Take out the drunk ninja salmons, and that 700 number drops significantly. Of the remaining few hundred, the majority are intersection, or dart out collisions, leaving very few law abiding cyclists killed by being hit in the rear by a car.

Admittedly, one is too many, and these 5 deaths are horrendous, but we do need to keep this in some perspective.

Vicegrip

The driver has been charged with 5 counts of second degree murder. He killed 5 people and seriously hurt 4 others. I don't want to hear his version of "My life's sad story".

I am sick of hearing excuses for people do things that have predictable outcomes.

I don't know the guys story, background or legal history. I bet that he had previous issues with driving under the influence of something. I bet he is a known problem person to law enforcement. A small few cause the largest % of problems.


Edit. just found the guy's name. His FB page covers it.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Char...hrome&ie=UTF-8

mcours2006

@merlin I will venture say that cyclists who frequent this forum are probably least likely to be in the fatality group for the reasons you stated. I do agree that the idea of being hit from behind is one that people find most disturbing because they don't see it coming and have no control over it. It's a fallacy, of course, because being hit from the side or front, or any such oblique angle you have very little awareness of it either. And because of the the differential in speed with these collisions you have little or no time to react anyway, even if you saw it coming.

mcours2006

That's surprising--2nd degree murder, and not vehicular manslaughter or something less.

Campag4life

thanks

Vicegrip

Agree with all the above. Big new making events get the attention but the reality is we get picked off one at a time with little fanfare and people on bikes are human and have all the same flaws as the humans in the cars. About the same kind of mind think as as dying from complications of smoking or flying commercial aircraft. 500,000 Murkins a year die from smoking one heart breaking story at a time but we crap our pants when 70 die in a plane crash once a year or so.

What does stink is the fact that even now, with all we know about it, driving under the influence is still an issue that takes far too many lives.

aubiecat

Punishing drunks? What am I missing here? We're talking about a mass murderer. What he did was no less horrible than if he had walked into a restaurant gunned down 9 people killing 5.

chaadster

The consensus, globally, is that it's substantially different. The matter is known as "intent to kill."

chaadster

Absolutely. I rode the road with the kids tonight, and while it did take some effort to suppress the primal fear this case reminds us is real, once I did and started paying attention to how my 9 year old was riding, it was pretty clear that the untrained, inexperienced cyclist puts themself in a whole lotta harms way, probably more than drivers put the cyclist in.

That's just me speaking as a lifelong cyclist, approaching 33 years worth of serious cycling, and one whose only bike/car accident was due to his own recklessness and resulted in a compound tib/fib fracture, the impact of which is still felt today as chronic arthritis in that knee.

Doug28450

How do you feel about Brock Turner?