dayco

First, I know very little about e-bikes. But...

This winter I was thinking about turning my old Trek Navigator 50 into an inexpensive homemade e-bike. It looks like it could be done for under $450 dollars. It would be a front wheel drive Illinois-street-legal e-bike with a range of approximately 25 miles (see calculator below). It would be powered by a 500w motor and a 36v 13ah battery.

I have a gas powered motorized bike that I ride and like. But when my legs are really bothering me I have a hard time pedaling from a stop and mounting the g-bike. An inexpensive e-bike might be an alternative.


Will these parts work together well? Is the quality of this e-bike kit and battery reasonably good? Is this everything I need to make the e-bike? Any recommendations on a more inexpensive or different approach to a reasonably dependable e-bike? Anybody see any problems? Thanks.


E-bike kit: $198.99

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08CZC9ZJ1...4f0744d1b&th=1

Battery: $219.99

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09V23T31N...7-c575f7c3dd5a


E-bike range calculator:

https://reallygoodebikes.com/pages/e...nge-calculator

ave. speed, 15mph
throttle only, 0
weight, 250lbs
cadence, 10rpm
hub, rear drive (same as front?)
motor, 500w
battery, 36v
batt. capacity, (13ah) 14ah
bike, hybrid
tires, road
7 speed
shifter, derailleur
terrain, flat
road, smooth asphalt
light breeze
a few stops

2old

As you can see from Amazon's ratings, both kit and battery are rated fairly well, but both have some "1" ratings suggesting failure. I have purchased similar kits from different vendors and I don't think Amazon is the best source since the products are supplied by third parties. The motor is direct drive with basically one moving part and should be bulletproof, but it appears as though there were problems with some controllers. I would purchase a battery only from a supplier known to have superior quality (ebikesca or em3ev), but they're more expensive. Otherwise it's the wild west. A first timer might be better off with a $800 Lectric, but it's single speed and might not be adequate if you reside in a hilly area.

tds101 

If you do go the conversion route via Amazon I'd recommend getting a warranty for the wheel and battery. This way if there's a failure you're covered.

roadcrankr

Looks like a decent solution. Bear in mind that this combined kit will add upwards of twenty pounds.
So your 33lb Trek turns into a 53lb+ machine. It becomes problematic lugging it around. Still, far lighter than a full electric bike.
I recommend passing on the PAS and the brake levers. Just use a throttle and avoid braking with the throttle activated.

I own a 3rd gen Swytch conversion with their 18-mile range battery. It adds about 8lbs to my road bike, making it around 25lbs.
They plan to release an integrated controller battery early next year that they claim will achieve 40 miles.
Guessing it might mean an additional ten pounds total. Appears it may sell for around $500. My version cost closer to $600.
Mine uses a thumb throttle and no PAS. I lug around a 2nd battery that adds another few pounds, but enables me to reach over fifty miles.

Doc_Wui

The Voilamart direct drive motor is not something that fits my biking needs. It's very heavy and high power, so it needs a sturdy steel fork for the front drive version It likes to be ridden under constant power, because the direct drive motors have magnet drag when coasting. Better for fast riding under throttle. This might be the biking experience you want. Good for a bike that gets you somewhere fast. Inexpensive too.

Video of Yose battery internals,

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Might be confusing, but to my eyes, it seems to be built like other batteries and they use fuses. In this price range,, you want to be lucky and get one of the good ones. They use cells that start wearing out after 2 years. Many will last much longer, but you only need one short lived cell to take down your battery. I've got expensive batteries that have lasted 8 years alongside one cheap one (cost half) that is also 8 years old. None of these were used hard, so that helps them last.

I am pretty disappointed with Amazon 3rd party warranties. More holes than siwss cheese that the supplier uses to wiggle away. The last one I bought, I never got the email that authorized the policy.






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XxHaimBondxX

After building a front wheel ebike I'd never do it again. Being front end heavy makes it harder to maneuver and corner. Plus, sometimes you need to remove the front wheel for transporting it.

soyabean

Unless you have deep sentimental value to turn your favorite beater into an e-bike, it would be easier and finally now cheaper to just buy a new e-bike.

Afterall, you'll be happy just to get any e-bike, right?

Because of post-covid demand drop, I'm seeing a lot of new (cheapie) e-bikes being liquidated, with used ones from private sellers taking bigger hits.

This does not appear to have impacted performance brand e-bikes as much. When I see a LBS mark down their e-bikes 30% off, I still think they are making a profit.

If your M.O. was to use your old bike as a base to create a quality e-bike, that is just not possible by slapping on cheap lowest price electronic parts on an already outdated bike.

Again, would explain why this slump does not appear to have impacted performance brand e-bikes as much.

zandoval 

Having a second wheel set with different tires for my bike has been wonderful. It's like having another bike in the stable.

Having an exchangeable self contained front e-wheel could be another step in my bicycles versatility. I like the concept!

Also, I personally would not be to concerned with its limitations by not expecting it to perform as a production e-bike.

dayco

Thanks everyone for all the information, advice and suggestions, keep it coming.

I'm leaning towards the Trek conversion due to cost, repair/maintenance and standardization of parts between the e-bike and my g-bike. It's important to me for the e-bike to be able to maintain 15mph, start from zero at a stop and travel 20-25 miles on a charge to be practical.

The 22lb e-bike front wheel/motor is at axle height. My 30lb g-bike motor/drive assembly is above the axle making it more top-heavy but okay. The battery/controller I was hoping to place on the down-tube. The e-bike's steering might be a little more sluggish but hopefully not a deal breaker. I'm more concerned about how stable the driving front wheel would be on a slick or loose surface.

It's not an 'either/or'. I'd use my e-bike when it was more appropriate and my g-bike when it was more appropriate. They'd both be street-legal. But to be able to mix traveling bike-trails and roads using the e-bike would be a definite advantage. But would my e-bike be considered class-1 or class-2 having both PAS and throttle? I'd have to find out.

2old

Class 2 with the throttle if your state uses the Class system.

dayco

I contacted the county forest preserve district who sets the rules and regulations for the bike-trails. Here's what they said:

"E-bikes are allowed on Forest Preserve District trails. Here are the requirements. They must:

Be low speed (an electric motor of less than 750 watts).
Have a maximum speed of less than 20 miles per hour.
Have functional pedals.
Have a rider of at least 16 years of age.

Only Class 1 bikes are allowed. No one can ride a bicycle that has a throttle or that is capable of exceeding 21 mph (Class 2 or Class 3 e-bikes). If you meet all four of these criteria, then you are allowed to use this bicycle on District trails. No permit is required. Please keep in mind that you must follow all posted speed limits and other rules and regulations set forth in the Forest Preserve’s Ordinance."

If it has a 'throttle' then it's a Class 2 e-bike and not allowed on the bike-trails. One of my main goals was to minimize pedaling. I'm willing to do low and slow pedaling to use a bike trail but not on streets and roads. A dedicated Class 1 is not what I need.

It's not that I'm a stickler for rules and regulations per se, but I am concerned about being in an accident. If I was in an accident with a vehicle or a pedestrian on an 'illegal' e-bike or g-bike, I'm sure things would get more complicated.

JGaerlan

Buying a used ebike on craigslist is a good alternative esp the ones with bad batteries. Just make it sure to price it with a new battery in mind.

Another way of doing it is to buy a decent mid drive kit from AliXpress and buy an upcycled battery from the battery recyclers. I just did this with a recumbent I just converted. It started out with a Rans Tailwind recumbent I purchased last yr for $350. I then ordered a Tongsheng 48V kit for $350 delivered. For the battery, batteryhookup had 48v 300wh backup server batteries for $25 which was probably cycled only a few times. Adding a BMS and spending some time, each battery was maybe about $50. I've had some experience with solar batteries so was not afraid to work on the batts. I get about 15 to 20 miles on the recycled batteries. I bought 3 of the batteries so can play around with them. I'm still playing with the firmware on the Tongsheng mid drive to maximize battery range. IF you need more info, just ask.

Doc_Wui

I was riding this bike around in the Cook County Forest Preserves back when it was warmer, I bought the Giant Rinco for 50 bucks. The motor is a Tongsheng TSDZ2B middrive, ordered from China for $262 shipped. Battery is a one-off brick in a bag on the rear rack, but the Yose battery you mentioned would work nice. Yes, the speed limit is 15-16 mph, and I took care to maintain it, as the Forest Preserve police can get bored. The TSDZ2 is a torque sensor motor, not as much power as most hubmotors, but really sweet to pedal.

A SuperDawg and a milk shake was like $16,


Here's another inexpensive conversion. I bought the Raleigh Mixte a few years ago for $50 again. It sat for a a few years while I decided what kind of motor would suit it, A hubmotor was too heavy, so it also has a $262 TSDZ2 mid drive. There's a one-off custom battery in the water bottle, but I could buy a commercial bottle battery for $250. Stops, shifts, and rides real nice.



Both of these are bikes that were intended to be pedalled with moderate motor assist, but tthe assist level can be cranked up. However, if you want the full electric rush, there's the hub motor approach.

vicatsu

What's a maximum engine power allowed officially now to use ebike on a public roads?

CrimsonEclipse

In the EU?
Varies but 250w and 25kph is the max for unlicensed ebikes in all of the EU

Some countries also have a 2000w and 4000w limits for moped and motor cycles (though terminology also varies) and requires licensing.

Robert C

I used this Class-1 eBike for a couple of years. It was rather trouble-free. It used a TSDZ2 bottom bracket motor and a Nu-Vinci hub.

dayco

Here in Illinois,USA the maximum power for e-bikes and g-bikes (motorized bicycle) is 750 watts or 1 hp. Class 1, (PAS only) and Class 2 (PAS and/or throttle) has a maximum speed of 20 mph. Class 3 (PAS only) I believe has the same power limitations as Class 1 and 2 but has a maximum speed of 28 mph. (If I'm wrong, please correct me.)

2old

36 states, including IL, use the Class system, defined as above.

twistgrip

My old commuter
This bike was asssembled in 2002 as a front wheel drive. Thousands of trouble-free kilometers since. Sourcing a reliable battery is important.

Smaug1

I dunno man. I think I'd just buy a Class 2 eBike and remove the throttle. Then, you have something with brakes and tires designed for the weight of the bike that won't look like crap. (like most of these conversions do)

I left IL before I got into eBikes, but when I lived in IL, I never saw a forest preserve cop except when it was time to close up the preserve at night and he was waiting for everyone to leave to lock the gates. Any other kind of cop is not going to bug you unless you're being REALLY obnoxious; they're understaffed due to the state being broke and can't be bothered with little penny-ante stuff like this.

A Lectric XP Lite is available for $800 and is good quality and even the tires are suitable for the gravel trails. It's torquey too, as its 350 W motor powers only a 20" wheel and it's geared for 20 mph max. The throttle is integral to the right grip though, so you'd have to unplug it and zip tie it off to the side for the trail rides. Yeah, that will mean you need to spend more, but you'll also have a lightweight (42 lbs?) folding eBike with disc brakes when all's said and done.

denaffen

I did a similar front wheel conversion on a Schwinn. Fun but very heavy.

2old

Nice, clean conversion; not like many store-bought bikes with a million wires hanging from the handlebars or my friend's Bulls with internal wiring; it cost him $425 to replace the display ($225 for the display, $100 for a wire connecting his system to the new display since they had discontinues the old model and another $100 for labor and incidentals).

twistgrip

When you love gear hubs, a front-wheel-drive hub motor is boss! I had it on a solid fork initially but soon switched to a suspension fork because of shoulder pain. Before the switch, it was like riding a jack hammer.

denaffen

One thing I do like about the front drive motor is that it plays nice with the three speed hub. I don’t know if a mid mount would or not.

2old

From what Karl Gesselein reports on electricbike-blog.com three speed hubs work well with mids, but for cruising I like yours better.

Completed, but no recent pic.