Shimano naming schemes
06-25-19, 04:10 PM
#26
Full Member
I may be wrong, but I thought 105 was introduced in the mid/late 80s when road bikes came with 12 speed, so I don't think it is based on '10 speed' If it ever was offered in 2x5 arrangement, it wasn't for very long.
Sora is actually an English name for a bird, too - a type of 'rail'. Don't know which inspired Shimano.
Sora is actually an English name for a bird, too - a type of 'rail'. Don't know which inspired Shimano.
I didn't know Sora was also bird name in English, could have been either since Shimano also had a Skylark for many years.
06-25-19, 06:19 PM
#27
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In the example you gave, those Altus shifters are great... and most Shimano shifters generally last a long time.
The three reasons you give are pretty accurate... two thoughts, though... Deore lasts longer than Alivio... so how long is that? My experience is that one or two seasons of regular riding and your Alivio parts are going to be pretty sloppy. Deore will probably go four or five years. This is the main difference between all the component levels in my experience. Even your third point, that Deore works a bit better in difficult conditions, isn't really true when the parts are new. Like you found, even the lower end stuff works fantastically when new. Especially when it's 7 or 8 speed and not 9, 10 or 11+. The difference comes when the parts get a few years old - it becomes very difficult to keep everything working perfectly.
But to each their own. I find the hassle of having to rebuild my drivetrain every one or two years, compared to every four or five, is worth the extra $$$. Others think differently, and there are excellent lower-cost parts for you people!
The three reasons you give are pretty accurate... two thoughts, though... Deore lasts longer than Alivio... so how long is that? My experience is that one or two seasons of regular riding and your Alivio parts are going to be pretty sloppy. Deore will probably go four or five years. This is the main difference between all the component levels in my experience. Even your third point, that Deore works a bit better in difficult conditions, isn't really true when the parts are new. Like you found, even the lower end stuff works fantastically when new. Especially when it's 7 or 8 speed and not 9, 10 or 11+. The difference comes when the parts get a few years old - it becomes very difficult to keep everything working perfectly.
But to each their own. I find the hassle of having to rebuild my drivetrain every one or two years, compared to every four or five, is worth the extra $$$. Others think differently, and there are excellent lower-cost parts for you people!
06-25-19, 06:41 PM
#28
Junior Member
When I bought my Cannondale with 105 components in 1987, the 600 was still around as was Suntour. I've always wondered why Shimano didn't change the name of 105 like the did 600. Yeah, first world problems!
06-26-19, 07:53 AM
#29
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Less expensive parts, in general, will wear out at the front derailleur first (in my experience). The rear derailleur will feel sloppy and hard to adjust next. Cogs generally wear out when used with a worn chain, regardless of the component quality of the cassette. Perhaps cheaper chains wear faster, leading to faster cassette wear, but I have never really tried to track this. Cheaper cainrings will also often wear faster than more expensive ones, but this also often requires riding with a worn chain or other missed opportunities for maintenance.
The other thing that wears faster on less expensive parts is the bearings... if you have lower level shimano hubs, for instance, the bearing surfaces will wear faster and require more frequent service than on more expensive Shimano hubs. In my experience, Shimano Alivio hubs are still far better than Formula (or other budget branded hubs) often used by bike companies to save a few pennies. Also the Shimano hub/freehub body interface (on all their freehubs) is far far superior to what is found on some other not-so-inexpensive hubs (specifically thinking of Novatec, made by Joytec I think). Same goes for bottom brackets... I was looking at a spec sheet for a Pinnacle touring bike yesterday and it came with UN26 BB, which is a very inexpensive BB. In my experience, though, the UN26 is better (longer lasting) than inexpensive BBs from other companies.
06-26-19, 09:35 AM
#30
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so by inherent design of the cheaper parts, they over time, offer a built in weight reduction process...
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06-26-19, 11:29 PM
#32
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Yeah, I remember 600.
Man that was the olden days when Suntour was still around.
Campagnolo was kept behind the counter in a glass case.
Actually Campag is just as bad! There are still groups out there I never heard of. Daytona? Mirage? Who what when where? Anyways...
I always wondered what the hell a Dura Ace was...
Man that was the olden days when Suntour was still around.
Campagnolo was kept behind the counter in a glass case.
Actually Campag is just as bad! There are still groups out there I never heard of. Daytona? Mirage? Who what when where? Anyways...
I always wondered what the hell a Dura Ace was...
I am actually building up an old Proteus frame with mostly 600 tricolor. Though if I didn't have all these tricolor parts (and some other useful bits and bobs) I probably would have sought out an old Superbé Pro groupset because why not Suntour? Or Zoidberg?
Their numbering scheme may not make a ton of sense always but who cares does it work with the components I need it to work with? Yes, then fine. No, then what does work with my components? Though I wish they would stop calling it a damn chainwheel, that is my major silly complaint of Shimano. XTR makes sense sort of because X=Cross T=Trail and R is for certain, Race.
Look at cars Silverado, Escalade, 911, Camry...what is any of that. One could probably make the argument OP is making for just about anything.
06-27-19, 02:50 AM
#33
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Exage... reminds me, I need to add some components to the Velobase archive.
This week I must have had too much spare time because I decided to swap my older 7-speed Shimano long cage rear derailleurs around, so I cleaned up both of 'em. One is an Exage 500CX that came with my 1993 Univega Via Carisma. I was thinking of replacing it with an early 1990s Deore LX, which I'd assumed was better because... Deore, right?
So I get both derailleurs in front of me, taking off the outer cage plate to clean the pulleys and... wait a dang minute... the cage plates are identical. Both are marked SGS too, as expected. But they're identical and interchangeable. Ditto the pulleys -- Centeron top, etc.
Then I wipe the grime off the stamped label that's usually hard to see and... the Exage 500CX is model M500... Deore LX is model M550.
I turn 'em around and around, studying every detail... they're nearly identical. Minor differences, such as the retention bolt for the body spring, and the little finger nubbin doodad that contacts the Low limit screw. Different finishes. The Deore LX is mostly plain brushed aluminum with black face plate. The Exage is a matte bluish-gray.
Very minor differences. Shimano just phased out Exage, made some minor changes, and renamed the model M550 and dubbed it with the slightly upscale Deore moniker.
Anyway, the Exage 500CX was a pretty good MTB/gravel group for a triple chainring (mine is 50/40/30, standard circular aluminum, not Biopace oval-ish) and accommodates an 11-32 8-speed cassette, but only in friction shifting mode with my Shimano 8-speed bar-end shifters. Index shifting is sketchy. It'll index shift fine from the smallest cog to the 6th. Then it gets finicky and wants to skip around on the 7th cog, and won't stay in the big cog. It might be possible to file down the metal finger nubbin doodad to get more clearance (low limit screw is already maxed out). But, nah, it works fine in friction mode.
But since the Exage 500CX group is pretty uncommon now, the early 1990s Deore LX group appears to be nearly identical and more readily available.
This week I must have had too much spare time because I decided to swap my older 7-speed Shimano long cage rear derailleurs around, so I cleaned up both of 'em. One is an Exage 500CX that came with my 1993 Univega Via Carisma. I was thinking of replacing it with an early 1990s Deore LX, which I'd assumed was better because... Deore, right?
So I get both derailleurs in front of me, taking off the outer cage plate to clean the pulleys and... wait a dang minute... the cage plates are identical. Both are marked SGS too, as expected. But they're identical and interchangeable. Ditto the pulleys -- Centeron top, etc.
Then I wipe the grime off the stamped label that's usually hard to see and... the Exage 500CX is model M500... Deore LX is model M550.
I turn 'em around and around, studying every detail... they're nearly identical. Minor differences, such as the retention bolt for the body spring, and the little finger nubbin doodad that contacts the Low limit screw. Different finishes. The Deore LX is mostly plain brushed aluminum with black face plate. The Exage is a matte bluish-gray.
Very minor differences. Shimano just phased out Exage, made some minor changes, and renamed the model M550 and dubbed it with the slightly upscale Deore moniker.
Anyway, the Exage 500CX was a pretty good MTB/gravel group for a triple chainring (mine is 50/40/30, standard circular aluminum, not Biopace oval-ish) and accommodates an 11-32 8-speed cassette, but only in friction shifting mode with my Shimano 8-speed bar-end shifters. Index shifting is sketchy. It'll index shift fine from the smallest cog to the 6th. Then it gets finicky and wants to skip around on the 7th cog, and won't stay in the big cog. It might be possible to file down the metal finger nubbin doodad to get more clearance (low limit screw is already maxed out). But, nah, it works fine in friction mode.
But since the Exage 500CX group is pretty uncommon now, the early 1990s Deore LX group appears to be nearly identical and more readily available.
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