CliffordK

Most miles driven are with cars that are < 20 years old.

Yeah, there are a few 30 or 40 year old cars on the road. Even a few 100 year old cars, but they don't get a lot of miles.

If 100% of the new cars were autonomous vehicles by 2025, then by 2050, over 90% of the miles driven would likely be by autonomous vehicles. By 2060 or 2070, it could well be up to 99%.

Then the government could give out big tax incentives to get the remaining cars either off the road or locked away in vintage collections.

We'll likely see a transition period where vehicles will have both manual and autonomous modes, but if autonomous really works, then we'll see cars go to 100% autonomous, or really change so that any manual mode is only for a shop maintenance mode, probably with very minimalistic controls.

CliffordK

Even without a mirror, I would have been aware of the car coming from behind. I may or may not have glanced back in time to see it swerve towards me.

99.999% of the cars safely pass, and it is easy to assume that that 0.001% would safely pass too.

If I didn't have rumble strips to my right, I would have drifted onto the shoulder before the car passed, even if the shoulder was pretty rough.

The rider road position with respect to the rumble strips effectively created a physical barrier for his movement right.

Yes, I've wondered about the efficacy of video cameras. The Varia system is supposed to give a warning without video, but may or may not have been accurate enough to detect the danger without too many false positives.

The Varia Vision™ In-sight Display is supposed to give a heads-up display that also pairs with the rear radar. I'd like to also see a rear camera feature, although one might assume a mirror would be good enough if not better.

transitguy

Yes, the rumble strips extended nearly all the way across the shoulder on one section of I-84 through eastern Oregon. There was a strip of pavement about 10" wide between the motor vehicle lane and the edge of the rumble strips, but there was no way I was going to ride there unless I was certain that no traffic was approaching from behind. There just was not enough room to make riding there safe. Most of the time I rode close to the far outer edge of the shoulder on this section (away from motorized traffic) and sometimes the rumble strips there were filled with sand, which made them much smoother. Eastern OR was the only place I encountered this type of rumble strip. Most of the I-84 (Oregon) and I-90 (Montana) corridor that I rode had rumble strips that were near the edge of the auto / truck traffic lane, and that left about 6' of shoulder open for cycling without too much trouble.

genec

As I said... not within our lifetime... that 2050 is 31 years in the future... I am in my early 60s now...

rseeker

Interesting and very annoying. Glad the sand made it easier. I wouldn't ride in that ten inch strip either.

That's more what I'm used to. My neighborhood drains onto a 55-mph four-lane (formerly 45mph two-lane, much nicer before) with narrow rumble strips and car-sized breakdown lanes. Every ride starts with that.

mr_bill

Anyone ride on loose chip seal?

Anyone?

-mr. bill

I-Like-To-Bike

I used to bike commute on a 5 mile section of I-84 from 1978-1980 from Hermiston OR to/from the next exit to the west. The road was then called I-80N and had no rumble strips. Riding on the six feet wide smooth well paved shoulder was easy-peasy with no issues at all other than the traffic noise from high speed motor vehicles.

Unca_Sam

Another data point in the argument for retesting for licensing, as originally proposed.

"Unimaginable"

Should be titled "Unfortunately Frequent"

Local driver suggests more signs, or something.

CliffordK

I have ridden on fresh chipseal. Not the most fun day, but it was OK.

Around here, for the most part the chipseal is swept a few days after application.

We have a few places where the county will sand bridges or corners, and then just never gets around to cleaning up their mess in the spring. Thus we end up with a narrow strip of clean pavement near the foglines, and wide sections of a gravel/sandy mess.

CliffordK

Very sad. And, if the guy was 83 years old, he likely was driving around the Amish for over a half century. Hopefully his license was permanently and forever revoked.

I wonder if one could argue for painting the Amish buggies like circus wagons.



Apparently some Amish are using buggy lights. I wonder if one could argue modernizing the buggies with crash protection. Still horse drawn, but designed to take a 60 MPH rear or side impact.

I-Like-To-Bike

What is "loose chip seal" supposed to mean?

Is it a road surfaced only with loose gravel or aggregate without any application of sealant, or is it just the excess gravel or aggregate not enmeshed in the bituminous surface treatment layer of a properly chip sealed road?

genec

1978-1980... well before the ubiquitous driver distraction known as a "smartphone" was invented. Cars had physical buttons, sliders and knobs that didn't require a driver to look at a touch screen to turn on a heater or change radio stations.

From about 1975 to about 1987 the national speed limit (often exceeded, mind you) was 55MPH. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nati...imum_Speed_Law

There had been a "gas crisis" in the mid and late '70s; Americans were driving smaller cars... the SUV craze had not yet occurred. https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/s...deaths-report/

Both cell phones and SUVs emerged on the American highways in the 90's. The 70's included a huge surge in cycling, and even "What's His Name's" book about Cycling Effectively came out at that time.

There were fewer cars on the road then. (the rise of more vehicles and little more road is well known... https://www.brookings.edu/research/t...rnment-can-do/ )

Those were great times for cyclists... although also admittedly... MADD had not made their stand against drunk driving yet. And certainly effective bike lighting was still some time in the future. I know you toyed with a unique "tall" lighting system... I used multiple heavy flashing Belt Beacons and even an MOB strobe in an effort to "be seen" at night.

But yeah... beyond disco, the 70's into the '80s were good for cyclists.

I-Like-To-Bike

Also well before 21st Century paranoia and unreasonable fear of bicycling induced by easy access to over-hyped threats and inflated estimates of bicycling risk via the Internet and social media; often actively promoted by bicycling enthusiasts as well as so-called bicycling advocates and/or so-called bicycling safety experts with their own agenda for exaggeration of bicycling risk.

MikeyMK

Takes a fair few feet, though...

MikeyMK

Nowhere apart from twice...

''The driver remained on the scene.''

''Police say the driver remained at the scene.''

Who's criticizing who's journalism, here..?

Daniel4

Article was updated on September 18th, the day after I had posted.

Two other people had confirmed my original post on Sept. 17th 9pm EDT.

Try this article.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/pedestrian-bus-collision-scarborough-1.5292837

No mention of any driver in the bus (Sept. 21, 2029 17:31 EDT).

Sept. 24, 2019 9:23 EDT no mention of driver in the car

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/pedestrian-collision-scarborough-golf-club-road-confederation-drive-1.5294842

Oct. 6, 2019 (22:43EDT)
Another article without mentioning any driver.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/pedestrian-dead-kawartha-lakes-struck-car-1.5311070

Oct. 9, 2019 (00:02 EDT)

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/male-pedestrian-dead-brampton-1.5314327

"- Vehicle remained on scene"

bipedalconsumer

In a reasonable legal configuration designed to protect everyone using the road and to deter bad behaviour, accelerating a car with the sun in your eyes resulting in someone's injury could constitute criminal negligence.

If that sort of legal deterrent could be relied upon, then this kind of accident would probably rarely happen, as drivers would fear loss of driving privileges or jail time for cutting corners in a potentially dangerous way, but like in various other facets of law and society, certain segments are protected from this level of accountability, so worrying about blame just won't keep us safe.

MikeyMK

It baffles me to think anyone would carry out their actions based on accountability politics. Perhaps one day i will lose out by my morally-orientated attitudes of common sense, but until then , they'll do me just fine.
In fact, self preservation alone has prevented me driving blind for more than a couple of seconds. The driver in the photo had been struggling for a few moments at least, seemingly quite some minutes, and that's simply inexcusable from any point - legal or otherwise.

bipedalconsumer

I just meant that I try to act according to realistic expectations. In my opinion the driver was probably grossly negligent, but that fact didn't prevent the cyclist from being run down, nor would it be terribly surprising if it happened again on the same stretch of highway.

Daniel4

I bet if I posted in a driving forum that one should drive according to the conditions instead of trying the drive normally in bad conditions, I'd get a lot of disagreements.

Slowing down in traffic and getting honked at by your fellow drivers seems to be a fate worse than purgatory so one would rather run a cyclist over and simply state you didn't see him.

Here's an article where a driver jumped a curb and killed a pedestrian over a bottle of water at his feet.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...nced-1.4412121

bipedalconsumer

That story is so illustrative - there are so many things you could say about the case, about the driver, about how certain history and interests have led to such an arguably perverse reliance on individual motor vehicles that to require more training or make it otherwise more difficult to get licensed or raise the driving age would apparently put an unreasonable burden on people who putatively need this kind of transportation to fully participate in society.

Or you could just say nothing. The woman and her dog have tragically died, and the case has provided no deterrent to any current or future drivers from not taking their role as the pilot of a 3,000 lb speed machine deadly seriously. Rather, it has contributed to an already enormous body of such precedent for future judicial decisions in criminal trials.

Sometimes I even get angry at the weather... but a wise cyclist can only assume that all drivers are poorly trained, reckless, and immune from prosecution.

mr_bill

-mr. bill

Daniel4

Yesterday, I did what I had suggested in several threads.

I wrote to my Ontario MPP to support Private Member's Bill 62, Protecting Vulnerable Road Users Act.

I stated several collisions in which there appeared to be nothing done against drivers who cause the death of pedestrians as compared to jail sentences when the victims are inside motor vehicles.