ncscott

I am thinking about upgrading my brakes on my Surly LHT from cantilever to v brakes (linear pull). V's are easier to adjust is my reasoning. It appears that for 30 dollars I can either get v-brakes compatible with my levers or levers compatible with a set of cheap v brakes I already own. Both options would need new cables. The bike is primarily for commuting but I always want to keep it available for a tour.
Is there an advantage to mini-v's vs traditional v's?
Thanks,

Derailed

Personally I prefer v-brakes as I have greater confidence in my ability to get them nicely adjusted, so I'd be inclined to go to the trouble to swap out the levers. I've never used mini-v's, however, so my personal comparison is just between cantilevers and v-brakes.

One of several reasons for why I built up my own LHT from separate parts back in 2010 was because I wanted to use v-brakes instead of the cantilevers that came with the complete LHT. Just last winter I swapped out the levers on my cyclocross bike to switch it over to v-brakes from cantilevers.

Knowing that many do quite well with cantilevers, and that my dissatisfaction with them in the past is at least partially due to a lack of technical skill on my part, I don't tend to advocate for v-brakes over cantilevers when it comes to other people's bikes.

But, I can say that I've been so happy with the braking on both of these bikes compared to cantilever-equipped bikes I've had in the past that, at least for me, it was well worth the trouble to make the switch on the cyclocross bike, and I certainly don't regret building up the LHT that way from the start.

Wanderer

And, don't forget the Kool Stop Salmon Pads....... Amazing stoppers, and kind to rims.

Mr IGH

I'd learn how to adjust your existing brakes, it's not that hard and they work fine, esp on a road bike.

fietsbob

Advantage is all about brake lever matching choices.. mini V for most road brake levers, like those already in use for cantilever brakes,

the longer arm V needs a long cable pull brake lever, such as Cane Creek and Tektro make are the primary sources .

Braking force is all about leverage lengths .. high leverage long pull brake needs a low leverage long cable pull brake lever on the hand end. ..

so you have less leverage at the rim with the Mini V, but more leverage with the shorter pull of the typical Aero brake lever . thus its a wash..

kpfeif

If you're already using bar-end or non-integrated shifters, and you want to use the linear pull (v) brakes, I'd recommend going to the long-pull cane creek levers. They work great with v-brakes, and you'll be left with more pad clearance, more fender/mud clearance, and more options in v-brakes to choose from than the mini-v option. I liked that combo a lot when I used it. Far easier to set up and more powerful than cantis, and in my opinion one of the cheapest and best upgrades you can do for a touring bike.

The only good reason to use mini v's is if you need compatibility with integrated road-style shifters.

Doug64

Is fender clearance with the mini's a problem?

niknak

You'll more likely run into fender clearance issues with minis. It depends on the frame and tire choice though.

I tried using minis but reverted back to cantis because I prefer more pad clearance from the rims. Powerwise, I'd say minis are on par with cantis. Regular v-brakes are more powerful with lighter lever action IMHO.

Tourist in MSN

I was going to say that. I have full size V brakes (XT, not sure which version) and they rub on my big fenders that fit over my 2.25 width tires. The mini ones would not work at all. On a different bike I have a mini on the rear, but no fender, there is not much clearance around the tire on that bike which I think is 40mm wide. On the mini, I am using normal brake levers but that brake feels pretty grippy so I am careful not to yank down too hard on that brake.

On my full size XT V brakes, I use the travel agent, thus use the same levers as I would with cantilever. On that bike I am running cantilever on the rear, V on the front. I prefer cantilever, but that bike can't be set up with cantilever on the front.

If you are not familiar with the travel agent, do a google search. I cropped a photo show my front brake with travel agent here:



If you wanted to try some different cantilever brakes instead, I like the Tektro CR720 cantilevers, but quite frankly on various bikes I have about 6 different types of cantilevers and I like all of them. LHT have changed a lot over the years, I have no clue which brakes you are running.

Doug64

Here is another view of a travel agent. When I built up my wife's bike she wanted V-brakes with Shimano STI road shifters, so I reluctantly put the travel agents on for her. I thought they would be a PITA. However, that was 4 years and 11,000 miles ago; and I have not adjusted them since installing them. She really likes the braking power. I thought about converting the brakes on my bike, but I use CX interrupter brakes levers, and they are not recommended with V-brakes.

jeffpoulin

My crosscheck started out with cantis, and even with koolstop pads (I tried salmon and black), I was never happy with the incessant squealing. I tried everything to fix the noise issue, but it always came back. So, I decided to swap out the brakes. Coincidentally, I had a pair of travel agents from an earlier bike, so I could have gone with normal V-brakes, but I decided to buy mini-Vs to keep the setup as simple as possible. I chose Tektro RX5s since they had nice reviews, were inexpensive, and had an 85mm reach, which for me was the right balance between pad and cable clearance. I'm glad I did. No more squealing, and the stopping power is better too.

I don't have fenders on this bike, but I have 700x40 tires and still have a full cm of clearance from the top of the tire to the cable boot where it exits the brake noodle. Fenders would be a tight fit with these tires, but a non-issue for 700x35 and below.

Sixty Fiver

Your levers and brake have to match up, the travel agent is a problem solver when you want to keep your existing road levers and run V brakes.

Some folks don't mind cantis and I can set them up in my sleep, for other folks V brakes are a better option because of easier set up and the fact they do offer some rather excellent stopping power. I have Deore V brakes and Tektro linear pull road levers on one of my touring bikes and the stopping power is off the hook and can be accomplished with one finger.

Mini V brakes tend to lack clearance for running fenders, something that most touring bicycles have.

MassiveD

You are only going to loose function, not gain it with the set-up you are mentioning. Meanwhile, with cantis, all you do it adjust them so the straddle cable is 90 deg or more obtuse at pad contact. Its a one second job.

I didn't like the Long V levers because they loose huge leverage off the hood, You have to overreach to get significantly past the pivot, so you get much worse braking. That's why they don't make them, until they decided, "what the heck, people are willing to run that travel agent crap"... Now if you always braked off the drops, that would be a different mater. I use the hoods position more often than not. But some people are on the drops all the time, and if that is you, then you could like the V levers with the V brakes. And sure, I can drop to the drops for a panic stop, but why need to when cantis work fine? If you run of the tops it tires the hands more in all those day to day situations where you aren't dropping down.

I would normally take a large glove, but not extra large, as far as my reach is concerned.

Derailed

I'd stick with cantilever brakes before I'd use travel agents if I were you. Also, acquiring a pair of travel agents will be more expensive than just getting V-brake specific levers. IMHO, travel agents only make sense if you want to use brifters with V-brakes, as was the case for Doug64.

I have Tektro RL520 brake levers and Avid Single Digit 5 linear-pull brakes (non-Shimano name for V-brakes) on both my LHT and CX bikes, and the braking is excellent whether I'm on the hoods or in the drops. Actually, come to think of it, I have the same setup for the front brake on my Cross Check commuter too, and it also brakes incredibly well.

Switching levers is indeed a pain, but if you ultimately want V-brakes (and don't plan to use brifters) I don't think you'll regret it.

I may well be in the minority, but I also like the the aesthetics of linear-pull brakes better than cantilevers, and I like not having brake cable stops on the frame.

rm -rf

Photos from the 2015 NAHBS.

Here's TRP 8.4 (84mm) mini-v brakes on a Synder bike. The tires are Maxxis 35c

I see that the brake pads are near the bottom of their adjustment. That leaves a little more room above the tire, but makes the pads sit closer to the rim. The small amount of pad clearance is the "biggest" mini-v downside.



The rear seems to have a little less clearance, but it's could be just the camera angle.


The TRP 8.4 with a 23c (or 25c?) tire. On an Eriksen bike with touring racks.


The 90 degree noodle does make the cable housing stick out to the side of the bike. I don't like anything sticking out near the seat post, where it could brush against my thighs.


side view. A little blurry.

fietsbob

not all frames put the posts in precisely the same place, so where the pad mounts in the slot in the brake arm can make a difference..

as does it tweak the MA... if located closer to the pivot , It makes the leverage a little bit more .

Since most people buy factory made frames and bikes You have no choice .. But you may look and judge the small differences ..

BigAura

I too have Deore V's & linear-pull Tektro roads on my touring bike. +1 to off-the-hook stopping power. When you're fully loaded and making long mountain descents its the way to go (by go, I mean stop).

MassiveD

V's don't have significant additional stopping power, and with the long pull road levers they can be worse. Since all these levers can be set up to work, you will find plenty of people with levers that work.

Another thing Vs are supposed to be worse for, though I have no experience with this, is they are supposed to be worse if your wheel goes out of true. Say get one bad spoke. Discs would be best, then cantis, ... But discs would be harder on the spokes if it was bad enough there might be a problem.

The best brake that actually does have superior performance (and isn't a disc) is to source some Pedersons. With Pedersons a lot of the braking comes from the momentum of the bike. The lever is more like a variable on off switch. You don't need stickie pads with them, which is an advantage in a touring scenario.

hybridbkrdr

For unknown reasons, I've read squealing complaints about Shimano Deore LX and XT V-brakes. But I haven't seen the same complaints for regular Shimano Deore V-brakes. (I ordered Shimano Deore V-brakes for my bike projects.)

EDIT: As a side comment, I can say I bought Tektro drop bar levers compatible with V-brakes and Tektro cross-top levers compatible with V-brakes. The names if I remember correctly are RL 740 (compatible with old 25.4mm standard) and RL 520. The RL 740 were so rare I only found them on eBay. lol

BigAura

Yes they do. The long pull is a mechanical advantage and easily perceived. It's like saying low mountain gearing has no additional hill climbing power because you could climb with higher gears.

mm718

I have cross levers with a Mini-V in front and no issues. My braking power feels like it is quadrupled just by swapping out the front canti for the Mini-V.

fietsbob

Paul's cross brake lever can go either way by moving the pivot pin. Cross Lever from Paul Component Engineering

saddlesores

i'm using deore v-brakes on the front and a mechanical disc BB5 rear,
with a pair of plain tektro mt3.0 levers. nice one-finger stopping.

Sixty Fiver

An odd little factoid is that the higher end dual pivot Shimano V brakes often play better with other levers... XTR dual pivots can be noisy with their matching lever, switch to XT or LX and this often stops. The LX dual pivots are a little heavier and tend to squeal less and probably illustrates why going all weight weenie on your brakes is not always the best idea.

Have discovered this with other brands where the groups matching lever did not work as others from the same company because of slightly different pull ratios and mechanical leverage. Old Campagnolo Record levers are a problem solver when then the lesser levers just don't provide the same performance.

The Tektro linear pull levers and Deore V brakes is a winning combination... it can feel like you have no brakes because the action is so light but the modulation and performance is off the hook.

fietsbob

This Brake uses V Brake posts and works reliably, where Shimano's Parallel push design failed .. Due to wear in too many pivot pins..

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