OUGrad05

I've been told by two good friends who cycle more than I do completely opposite things on a trainer. One said go direct drive. Only way to go, more accurate power, etc etc...another said go wheel on especially if you have more than one bike and it's much quicker/easier to do wheel on if you plan to go for a ride and have unexpected storms (happens a few times a year here) or complete washout occurs.

Assuming I go wheel on, since that logic seems to make a lot of sense to me, what recommendations are there? Kickr SNAP and what else? Mixed reviews seem pretty common on these and the Wahoo page has several 1 star reviews due to poor quality control and flywheel issues on the SNAP. I'm hoping to get something fairly soon since it'll start cooling off and rain is becoming more common.

I definitely want something that allows me to keep my gains and continue to gain power through the cold months. Seems that any of the top end smart trainers will do this? Any help would be appreciated.

datlas 

OUGrad05

Goals are increased strength and to continue to improve on the bike during the cooler months. I could see using Zwift a couple months a year but not year round. I prefer to be outside, but Zwift Dec/Jan/Feb could make some sense.

WhyFi

I can't see wheel-on trainers being meaningfully faster or more convenient than direct drive. How many seconds does it take to take a wheel off and fit it to the trainer? Not long. With a wheel-on trainer, you obviously don't have to take the wheel off, but you're still aligning, clamping/tightening, and adjusting the roller tension. I currently have a wheel-on trainer and when it gets replaced, it'll certainly be with a direct drive.

ingo

Wheel on trainers are known to be less accurate for power measurement, not a factor if you are using a separate power meter. Direct drive trainers are more responsive for simulated gradient and erg mode changes if that is what you want for your indoor workouts. I don't see the argument regarding putting the bike onto the trainer. Putting a bike on a direct drive trainer is 30 seconds. Mounting a bike on a wheel on trainer will require tightening the drive roller, checking air pressure, and doing a calibration before the workout. That takes longer. Last thing, if you use the trainer a lot with the wheel on you will need to buy a trainer tire and probably a wheel and cassette for that tire so you don't have to change the tire every time. I put 6000 km/year on my direct drive trainer, so it has a dedicated bike that never goes on the road.

TrojanHorse

I made the same choice a year and a half ago and went wheel off because I didn't want to buy it and cry about it forever. Wheel off generally work a little better in terms of capability, however wheel on are perfectly suitable to indoor training... BUT... most people who use a wheel-on trainer also have a trainer tire on the wheel they use with their indoor trainer, so now you're swapping wheels anyway. and if you don't use a trainer tire you'll be going through expensive road tires at an impressive clip.

I used to wheel my road bike in and prop the wheel up against the wall. I since renovated an old steel road bike and plan to leave that on the trainer this winter.

My general advice to people is buy a Neo if you're in Europe and a kickr if you're in the USA because shipping a 50 lb trainer overseas for warranty service is expensive. They're both good.

My other pro tip is that wahoo frequently sell refurbs on their site and you can get a screaming deal if you are vigilant.

Athens80

The Wahoo KICKR Core is in line to be the new benchmark in value for money -- capable, quiet, compatible with any software. See more here , and .

Bah Humbug

For me certainly, putting a bike on the Hammer is quicker than the KKRM. YMMV.

OUGrad05

I was looking at the core, need to buy a new cassette if I go that route, that's pretty easy.

The other argument for the wheel on trainer was that I have multiple bikes with another coming next year or in 2020.

But they may have a similar cassette as I anticipate my next bike being a 105 or Ultegra bike.

Core may be a solid option.

Edit: I guess within the last day or two the 2017 KICKR has gone on sale for 999.99. I may pull the trigger on that Friday.

Athens80

If it matters enough -- the 2018 KICKR and KICKR Core are noticeably quieter than Wahoo's prior years' models. The new models are "silent" -- at least quiet enough that the noise level is determined by the drive train not the trainer. Like the Tacx Neo.

OUGrad05

Good to know, but with core you get no cadence sensors, no cassette, so you're in it for at least another hundred bucks vs the 2017 KICKR.

firebird854

Just wanted to mention STAC Zero Halcyon Smart Trainer, I don't own one, I own a Cyclops Magnus, but it seems pretty cool in that you keep your wheel on and it doesn't touch it. Essentially, it uses magnetic eddy currents to provide resistance, the cool thing I've seen from reviews is that coasting truly is coasting with this.

topflightpro

We have a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine, CycleOps Fluid 2, and a Kickr. They all have trade offs, but the issue of putting the bike on/off is kind of irrelevant. So, I wouldn't include that in your criteria.

Do you want to use Zwift and the smart trainer options? If so, get a smart trainer.

Do you just want to do interval workouts based on an existing plan and power meter? If so, a basic dumb trainer will work fine.

Also, if you just need a basic trainer, look on Craigslist or reach out to your local cycling community. Lots of people have gone the smart trainer route and now have a dumb trainer sitting around collecting dust. You can get a nice one for not much.

OUGrad05

I would probably use ZWift in the winter mos, Dec-Feb when its likely to be in the 20s in the morning.

topflightpro

In that case, go with something like the Kickr. Also, sign up for the mail list and keep an eye out for refurbished ones on sale. And when you see it, jump. I got one last year, but a buddy who tried later in the day, did not.

OUGrad05

I signed up for info on the Kickr Core, looks promising. Last week they had some 2017s on sale for 999.99 should have probably done it but had some unexpected expenses that made me hesitate. They're gone now.

I'll need to do something no later than Nov, it will start getting too cold to ride and halfway enjoy it by then.

Sy Reene

The Elite Direto has been good for me.
What does it matter how many bikes you have... just pick one to use with the trainer and get a cassette to match what's on that bike?

Also, if you have a crank mounted magnet-less cadence sensor on your bike anyway, this should work fine with your trainer (no extra expense).

Psychocycles

This is completely accurate! I got my Kinetic dumb fluid trainer, along with a sweat mat and riser block, for $100 off of eBay (local pickup). It was in virtually new condition and with the combo valued at over $400 new. I'm still trying to determine how much of my riding I want to do indoors, via Zwift or the like, so I'm not 100% sold on direct drive if I look to upgrade, but I can easily see it being worth the money if I spend at least 3-4 months full time indoors. I'm lucky that I have two bikes, one's a dedicated road bike and the other's a cross bike with two sets of wheels, so I can easily switch between going on a cross ride and hitting the turbo (or going outdoors on a wet day if I don't feel like being inside). If you're able to have a bike 100% dedicated to indoors, or several sets of wheels so you can easily swap between a worn out tire (or a turbo tire) and a road worthy tire, then wheel-on is a great way to go for 1/2 the price of direct. Otherwise, if you have the cash and plan to spend a good amount of time indoors, I think a direct drive is more convenient.

whitemax

If you're going to Zwift, get the direct drive. You will need a cassette to put on it. Get a 9 speed cassette for $30 or even cheaper, no biggie. I too have the Elite Direto, got it for $800 shipped from Competetive Cyclist. For the difference (versus the $600 wheel on versions out there), I'd go with the direct drive. I virtually never have to calibrate it and with the wheel on trainers, you have to do so before every ride which to me is a giant PIA. I get rpm, speed, power, heart rate (have to have your own strap) with no additional sensors. It has been great.

Sy Reene

But wouldn't this only be the case if you don't already have a cadence sensor on the outside bike you're using. Cassettes are a wear item anyway, no?

zacster

I used a Cycleops Fluid 2 trainer last year, first without a power meter relying on "virtual power", and then with a pair of Assioma power meters. It was fine and I was a lot stronger than I ever was after 4-5 months of indoor riding. But we recently had a week's straight of rain and I did my first ride of the season on the trainer and decided to buy a smart trainer and there was no question that a direct drive was the way to go. And the one to get now is the Kickr Core IMHO. It just seems to hit the right price, more than a Snap or Magnus, but under a grand. The biggest issue for me is that I ride Chorus 10 and it only has Shimano. There is no Shimano that is compatible directly but I think I have this solved, an Ultegra 10sp cassette just needs very thin 0.2mm spacers between the loose cogs and it'll be close enough to Campy spacing. I found some material to use to cut spacers out. I already have everything else I need, including tools, sensors, head unit, and subscriptions to The Sufferfest and Zwift.

I should mention that as of today, the Core is on backorder. Mine is due early October. Can't wait to try it all out. Suffering is in my future. I confirmed that with my cardiologist today.

macca33

zacster

I guess when they said early October, they meant it. It is due to arrive Tuesday the 2nd of October. I built up the cassette with the spacers the other day and it lines up pretty well with a real Campy 10.

exRunner

Athens80

Somehow Shimano 5800 11-speed and 5600 10-speed are coexisting reasonably well on a 5800 cassette mounted on a 2014 Kickr. By that I mean that shifting works, a few front & rear gear combinations on the 5600 are noisy and therefore avoided, erg mode on the trainer is an easy solution, and one day we'll get back to having a dedicated bike on the trainer, and that bike's drivetrain will exactly match the cassette.