Chain tool design issue?
05-13-17, 07:38 AM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Chain tool design issue?
I have a Park Tool CT-3 chain tool.
It has the possibility of replacing the chain tool pin. This has never been necessary for me though - but there seems to be some design issues with this "feature".
The tool works perfect when turning the handle clockwise for removing the chain pins, but as soon as I reverse direction to remove the tool from the chain after successfully splitting the chain, the chain tool pin itself will "loosen itself" and disconnect from the tool handle. I then have to use some pliers or similar to fasten the tool pin again and try to successfully remove the tool chain pin from the chain casings.
Here are the chain tool pin and you can see the thread direction that makes them loosen when reversing the tool handle direction:
CTP Replacement Chain Tool Pin | Park Tool
Anything I've missed here?
It has the possibility of replacing the chain tool pin. This has never been necessary for me though - but there seems to be some design issues with this "feature".
The tool works perfect when turning the handle clockwise for removing the chain pins, but as soon as I reverse direction to remove the tool from the chain after successfully splitting the chain, the chain tool pin itself will "loosen itself" and disconnect from the tool handle. I then have to use some pliers or similar to fasten the tool pin again and try to successfully remove the tool chain pin from the chain casings.
Here are the chain tool pin and you can see the thread direction that makes them loosen when reversing the tool handle direction:
CTP Replacement Chain Tool Pin | Park Tool
Anything I've missed here?
05-13-17, 08:15 AM
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ithaca, NY
Posts: 4,852
Bikes: Click on the #YOLO
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 12 Times
in
12 Posts
Grind the burr off the end of the chain pin.
I'm somewhat surprised the pin is getting left behind, I would have though the grossly different thread pitches (very fine for t-handle, very coarse for pin) would prevent what you're describing. I've run a park chain tool for years with a removable pin and never had that issue.
Wait, Have you already ground the burr off the end of the pin? Which is making the pin is too short now so you have to jam the tool pin up to the taper to get enough chain rivet pushed through, but because you're up to the hilt on the chain tool pin, it's getting stuck? ... and subsequently unthreading.
I'm somewhat surprised the pin is getting left behind, I would have though the grossly different thread pitches (very fine for t-handle, very coarse for pin) would prevent what you're describing. I've run a park chain tool for years with a removable pin and never had that issue.
Wait, Have you already ground the burr off the end of the pin? Which is making the pin is too short now so you have to jam the tool pin up to the taper to get enough chain rivet pushed through, but because you're up to the hilt on the chain tool pin, it's getting stuck? ... and subsequently unthreading.
__________________
Shimano : Click :: Campy : Snap :: SRAM : Bang
Shimano : Click :: Campy : Snap :: SRAM : Bang
05-13-17, 08:29 AM
#4
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Thanks for replying. I did not quite understand your question;
"Wait, Have you already ground the burr off the end of the pin? Which is making the pin is too short now so you have to jam the tool pin up to the taper to get enough chain rivet pushed through, but because you're up to the hilt on the chain tool pin, it's getting stuck? ... and subsequently unthreading."
English not being my first language, and there were some words here that I could not understand (and that Google Translate could not help me with). Could you rephrase the question or explain the words "burr", "taper", "hilt" in this context?
I really just use the tool to push a random chain rivet out when I replace chains, and when I reverse to extract the tool pin - it is just being left behind due to the friction in the chain casings. Nothing special here. Normal procedure when I remove a chain. With a fixed chain tool pin - it would have been no issue.
"Wait, Have you already ground the burr off the end of the pin? Which is making the pin is too short now so you have to jam the tool pin up to the taper to get enough chain rivet pushed through, but because you're up to the hilt on the chain tool pin, it's getting stuck? ... and subsequently unthreading."
English not being my first language, and there were some words here that I could not understand (and that Google Translate could not help me with). Could you rephrase the question or explain the words "burr", "taper", "hilt" in this context?
I really just use the tool to push a random chain rivet out when I replace chains, and when I reverse to extract the tool pin - it is just being left behind due to the friction in the chain casings. Nothing special here. Normal procedure when I remove a chain. With a fixed chain tool pin - it would have been no issue.
05-13-17, 09:28 AM
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 18,082
Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4204 Post(s)
Liked 3,862 Times
in
2,310 Posts
Thanks for replying. I did not quite understand your question;
"Wait, Have you already ground the burr off the end of the pin? Which is making the pin is too short now so you have to jam the tool pin up to the taper to get enough chain rivet pushed through, but because you're up to the hilt on the chain tool pin, it's getting stuck? ... and subsequently unthreading."
English not being my first language, and there were some words here that I could not understand (and that Google Translate could not help me with). Could you rephrase the question or explain the words "burr", "taper", "hilt" in this context?
I really just use the tool to push a random chain rivet out when I replace chains, and when I reverse to extract the tool pin - it is just being left behind due to the friction in the chain casings. Nothing special here. Normal procedure when I remove a chain. With a fixed chain tool pin - it would have been no issue.
"Wait, Have you already ground the burr off the end of the pin? Which is making the pin is too short now so you have to jam the tool pin up to the taper to get enough chain rivet pushed through, but because you're up to the hilt on the chain tool pin, it's getting stuck? ... and subsequently unthreading."
English not being my first language, and there were some words here that I could not understand (and that Google Translate could not help me with). Could you rephrase the question or explain the words "burr", "taper", "hilt" in this context?
I really just use the tool to push a random chain rivet out when I replace chains, and when I reverse to extract the tool pin - it is just being left behind due to the friction in the chain casings. Nothing special here. Normal procedure when I remove a chain. With a fixed chain tool pin - it would have been no issue.
Only grind the outer diameter of the pin, leaving the length as is. Andy
05-13-17, 09:32 AM
#6
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
05-13-17, 09:45 AM
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 8,688
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1074 Post(s)
Liked 295 Times
in
222 Posts
Taper - like a cone, only slower to change diameter.
Icicles, carrots are tapered.
Hilt - the transition from the working part to the handle/held part of a tool.
05-13-17, 09:48 AM
#8
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Burr - manufacturing defect. Usually from a cutting/stamping operation. Thin "flakes" or a ridge left after a cut.
Taper - like a cone, only slower to change diameter.
Icicles, carrots are tapered.
Hilt - the transition from the working part to the handle/held part of a tool.
Taper - like a cone, only slower to change diameter.
Icicles, carrots are tapered.
Hilt - the transition from the working part to the handle/held part of a tool.
I don't think that there is some damage on the chain tool pin though...
05-13-17, 10:28 AM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 18,082
Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4204 Post(s)
Liked 3,862 Times
in
2,310 Posts
Most every chain tool I've used would develop a burr or mushroom at the pin's tip after use. Modern chains with their peened over pins need even higher chain tool pressures to extract the chain's pin. We use a Park CT3 a number of times a day during the season and find a need to grind off the burr every few weeks. We generally replace the tool's pins once a year. One trick I've done for years when pushing out a chain pin is to do initial pin pressure so that the chain pin just starts to break free then loosen the tool and retighten to push the chain pin out fully. This lets the tool's pin better align with the chain's. Andy
05-13-17, 10:47 AM
#10
Really Old Senior Member
Most every chain tool I've used would develop a burr or mushroom at the pin's tip after use. Modern chains with their peened over pins need even higher chain tool pressures to extract the chain's pin. We use a Park CT3 a number of times a day during the season and find a need to grind off the burr every few weeks. We generally replace the tool's pins once a year. One trick I've done for years when pushing out a chain pin is to do initial pin pressure so that the chain pin just starts to break free then loosen the tool and retighten to push the chain pin out fully. This lets the tool's pin better align with the chain's. Andy
I got about 3-4 years (bike flippers use) from my 2nd cheap tool before the threads got worn & sloppy. The 1st one lasted about 2 chains with my "beginners" technique. Lube the threads.
05-13-17, 11:12 AM
#11
Banned
Displacement Happens , pushing on the end will mushroom it a little bit wider. around the tip.
I have a 45 year old chain tool that still works ..
....
I have a 45 year old chain tool that still works ..
....
05-13-17, 11:26 AM
#12
Generally bewildered
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Eastern PA, USA
Posts: 3,037
Bikes: 2014 Trek Domane 6.9, 1999 LeMond Zurich, 1978 Schwinn Superior
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1152 Post(s)
Liked 341 Times
in
251 Posts
Kind of dissapointing for Park to sell a tool that has a useful service life between maintenance of two weeks!
05-13-17, 05:31 PM
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 33,656
Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2026 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,096 Times
in
742 Posts
Blue Loctite.
05-13-17, 07:41 PM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Boulder County, CO
Posts: 1,511
Bikes: '92 22" Cannondale M2000, '92 Cannondale R1000 Tandem, another modern Canndondale tandem, Two Holy Grail '86 Cannondale ST800s 27" (68.5cm) Touring bike w/Superbe Pro components and Phil Wood hubs. A bunch of other 27" ST frames & bikes.
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 110 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
4 Posts
Park makes a lot of crappy tools. The absence of a full line competitor making quality tools doesn't mean Park tools are actually "good."
I've been more than happy with every duplicate tool I've bought from Pedro's vs Park. I've duplicated, triplicated, and even quintuplicated some tools...but I like bike tools!
Still I couldn't be happier with the two generations of Pedro's chain tools I have. I never touch the Park chain tools. I do like the Park mini brute for carrying on rides though! The only shop chain tool I want is the rare Shimano Pro tool with rosewood handles.
Other than that I'vd given up on Park and will stick with either Pedro's chain tool. Better hardened steel pins. My oldest Pedro's chain tool has extra pins in the handle. Never needed 'em yet,
Also firing pins exert little real force, certainly nothing in orders of magnitude to compare to what a chain tool exerts on the pin.
I've been more than happy with every duplicate tool I've bought from Pedro's vs Park. I've duplicated, triplicated, and even quintuplicated some tools...but I like bike tools!
Still I couldn't be happier with the two generations of Pedro's chain tools I have. I never touch the Park chain tools. I do like the Park mini brute for carrying on rides though! The only shop chain tool I want is the rare Shimano Pro tool with rosewood handles.
Other than that I'vd given up on Park and will stick with either Pedro's chain tool. Better hardened steel pins. My oldest Pedro's chain tool has extra pins in the handle. Never needed 'em yet,
Also firing pins exert little real force, certainly nothing in orders of magnitude to compare to what a chain tool exerts on the pin.
05-18-17, 05:34 AM
#16
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Got the following tip from Park Tool themselves. Will try that:
Sorry the pin is coming loose after pushing a rivet from a chain.
The CTP pin is simply not installed tight enough into the “T-Handle”.
I suggest a drop of TLR-1 Medium [blue] or TLR-2 Hi strength [red] thread-locker on the threads and tighten the pin 7-9Nm with a 7mm 12 point socket/wrench.
Simply unscrew/remove the “T” handle from the chain tool, unscrew/remove the CTP from the “T”-handle with a 7mm or 9/32" 12 pt. box end/socket. Ad a drop of thread-lock, screw the CTP in and tighten 7-9Nm.
This will keep the pin tight during use and allow for removal/replacement when breakage occurs.
The CTP pin is simply not installed tight enough into the “T-Handle”.
I suggest a drop of TLR-1 Medium [blue] or TLR-2 Hi strength [red] thread-locker on the threads and tighten the pin 7-9Nm with a 7mm 12 point socket/wrench.
Simply unscrew/remove the “T” handle from the chain tool, unscrew/remove the CTP from the “T”-handle with a 7mm or 9/32" 12 pt. box end/socket. Ad a drop of thread-lock, screw the CTP in and tighten 7-9Nm.
This will keep the pin tight during use and allow for removal/replacement when breakage occurs.
05-18-17, 09:52 AM
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Bozeman
Posts: 4,094
Bikes: 199? Landshark Roadshark, 198? Mondonico Diamond, 1987 Panasonic DX-5000, 1987 Bianchi Limited, Univega... Chrome..., 1989 Schwinn Woodlands, Motobecane USA Record, Raleigh Tokul 2
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1131 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Got the following tip from Park Tool themselves. Will try that:
Sorry the pin is coming loose after pushing a rivet from a chain.
The CTP pin is simply not installed tight enough into the “T-Handle”.
I suggest a drop of TLR-1 Medium [blue] or TLR-2 Hi strength [red] thread-locker on the threads and tighten the pin 7-9Nm with a 7mm 12 point socket/wrench.
Simply unscrew/remove the “T” handle from the chain tool, unscrew/remove the CTP from the “T”-handle with a 7mm or 9/32" 12 pt. box end/socket. Ad a drop of thread-lock, screw the CTP in and tighten 7-9Nm.
This will keep the pin tight during use and allow for removal/replacement when breakage occurs.
The CTP pin is simply not installed tight enough into the “T-Handle”.
I suggest a drop of TLR-1 Medium [blue] or TLR-2 Hi strength [red] thread-locker on the threads and tighten the pin 7-9Nm with a 7mm 12 point socket/wrench.
Simply unscrew/remove the “T” handle from the chain tool, unscrew/remove the CTP from the “T”-handle with a 7mm or 9/32" 12 pt. box end/socket. Ad a drop of thread-lock, screw the CTP in and tighten 7-9Nm.
This will keep the pin tight during use and allow for removal/replacement when breakage occurs.
Replacement pins come with blue locktight on the threads.
05-18-17, 10:24 AM
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 33,656
Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2026 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,096 Times
in
742 Posts
05-18-17, 05:10 PM
#20
Senior Member
I'm not sure what you're all talking about as far as "burrs," but I can tell you that, when I ran my bicycle recycling program in the early 2000's and we had about a dozen CT-3's in the shop, the problem you described was very common. I used to just tighten the tool with needle nose pliers and that would solve the issue for a few weeks at a time.
