Carbonfiberboy 

Starting in late September, I've done about 90 hours of training in zone 1 in the 3 zone system, and almost nothing above that effort level. It's been about 75% bike with the rest strength, walking, or hiking. I've done quite a few 90'-120' roller rides, 70-75%FTP, also many shorter ones and a few recovery rides. I did my first intervals today, a set of 4 X 4' X 3' at 105% FTP. They weren't easy, but not terribly difficult either. I was amazed to see that my max HR on the last one was 8 beats over my last year's VT2 and I hadn't started to pant yet, still breathing deeply. I certainly didn't expect that and didn't expect to do that set with no problem. More about that FTP number further down this post.

This is with way fewer hours than is usually recommended to get results with PT. Of course I would have gotten better results with more hours, but I felt like I was pushing my limits most weeks. 3 roller rides in a row of those lengths and effort levels really took it out of me. I have to remember that I have almost 25 years on Seiler even if I have trouble admitting it to myself. One thing I noticed after the long roller rides is that my hip flexors and sometimes even my abs were quite sore the next day. I habitually try to pedal circles on my rollers and am apparently getting better at it. Doing those intervals, my legs didn't tire if I made sure to pedal circles.

Above that effort level I did 2 roller rides with a 15' & 20' muscle tension at 90% FTP, which hardly got my HR out of zone 1. I'll work on doing those at FTP. I'll keep doing those every week for a while, as well as one day of sets of OLP*. The OLP rides are really recovery rides as the HR and wattage is so low in spite of the pain being so high. Those 2 days fit in well with the PT. Doesn't all have to be steady 90 cadence.

Question: many riders including me have usually gotten their FTP and LTHR numbers using tests lasting from 8 to 20'. I'm thinking of trying to hold some steady power for 50'. Over a period of months, I should be able to home in a good number, plus that'd be good endurance training, rather like doing a moderately long all-out climb. I have my first test coming up next week. Comments?

*OLP is One Legged Pedaling

rubiksoval

To replay the broken record:

If you feel like you're pushing your limits and then properly recovering, then the training methodology is of secondary/very little importance.

8-20 minutes aren't FTP tests.

50 minutes would give you a much better estimation of your FTP. It's a mental issue for most people, not a physical one (except in the sense they try to ride at a wattage target they want to be their FTP, rather than what they're actually capable of). You could even approach it as a workout each week, shooting for 90-95% for 45 minutes to an hour. As you do workouts like this, you'll find there really isn't even a need to do a formal "test", though it's sometimes fun to do a bit of taper and see what you're really capable of.

Carbonfiberboy 

Thanks, I'll do that, but probably only once a month toward the end of my easy week, like you say.

Not a broken record, I think? Always good to remember. OTOH, the results . . . I've looked at a lot of studies where results varied quite a bit with minor variations in exact training prescription, type of interval, that sort of thing. Of course these could all be a result of researcher bias like the majority of nutritional studies.

Clyde1820

Back in the day as a distance runner, much of our (my) training was the moderate-intensity stuff of greater duration. We called it "long, slow base," as distinguished from the strength focused or speed focused runs for those other aspects of our fitness and performance.

Hard to overestimate the value of a long-term incorporation of much "long, slow base" type training in cardio-heavy activities. Can really help, if woven in as part of the overall plan.

Wattsup

What's above Zone 3 in PT?

Carbonfiberboy 

Death. You can't get no higher.

Carbonfiberboy 

Yesterday, I did a 15' muscle tension interval, 55 cadence in my 53X11, 103% FTP, zone 3 HR in the 5 zone system, 2 in the 3 zone system. The interval was not hard at all, though my legs were starting to tire a bit toward the end and they are nicely, slightly sore today, good. I could have gone harder, but didn't want to go out of zone 3. Just goes to show how bad power is at measuring physiological strain. I don't usually do those intervals at that high a power, but I read that Basso did them at 45 cadence and ~380 watts, probably near his FTP, so I thought I'd see what that was like. It was good. back in the LA days, Basso was my wife's favorite rider. Good man to copy!

I couldn't match Basso's 45 cadence - I was out of gears and on my resistance rollers.