Why SRAM Red derailleurs suck.
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: RTP, NC
Posts: 2,190
Bikes: LOOK 595 & Cannondale CAAD9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Why SRAM Red derailleurs suck.
I finally got around to cleaning my bike today, and while the chain was off I figured it was a good time to switch out the Red FD to the Force FD I've had laying around. I meant to change it sooner because I've had very inconsistent performance with the Red FD ever since I installed the Red gruppo.
I don't think the Red FD sucks because it's titanium. I think it sucks because of the stupid cage design. I just took some pics with my phone and if you look you can see how the inside of the cage curves away from the chain ring. There are scratch marks all over this area that indicate where the chain is getting hung up. I think this is why the chain doesn't want to positively jump up to the big ring.
The Force FD, OTOH, is shaped much more like an Ultegra FD. The inner plate is more vertical and has a lip that looks like it's meant to positively pop the chain on to the teeth of the big ring.
So why the hell does SRAM insist on producing this stupid Red cage when it clearly doesn't work as well as Rival, Force, Ultegra, DA, etc?? It's the only one that has this stupid cage design, and it's the only one that gets bad reviews. They could easily keep the cage titanium and just shape it like the Force FD. Why they don't beats me.
I don't think the Red FD sucks because it's titanium. I think it sucks because of the stupid cage design. I just took some pics with my phone and if you look you can see how the inside of the cage curves away from the chain ring. There are scratch marks all over this area that indicate where the chain is getting hung up. I think this is why the chain doesn't want to positively jump up to the big ring.
The Force FD, OTOH, is shaped much more like an Ultegra FD. The inner plate is more vertical and has a lip that looks like it's meant to positively pop the chain on to the teeth of the big ring.
So why the hell does SRAM insist on producing this stupid Red cage when it clearly doesn't work as well as Rival, Force, Ultegra, DA, etc?? It's the only one that has this stupid cage design, and it's the only one that gets bad reviews. They could easily keep the cage titanium and just shape it like the Force FD. Why they don't beats me.
Last edited by ilovecycling; 09-15-11 at 10:35 PM.
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Martinsburg, WV
Posts: 74
Bikes: Scattante
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
pretty interesting, I've heard many times of pro's and others using Force over Red because of the titanium cage, you never hear anything about a different cage design
there must be some technical reason that they designed the cage in that fashion, even if it was a flawed one
there must be some technical reason that they designed the cage in that fashion, even if it was a flawed one
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2952 Post(s)
Liked 3,106 Times
in
1,417 Posts
I got a Force FD when I switched frames (clamp on to braze on) and I didn't want to drop the major coin for Red a second time. Haven't noticed much difference. I've heard the best bang for the buck is Red shifters and Force or Rival everything else. Of course, I've heard that on BF so take that for what it's worth.
#5
Peloton Shelter Dog
I have heard this time and again. Guys riding Red with Force FD's.
__________________
https://www.cotsiscad.com
https://www.cotsiscad.com
#7
bike whisperer
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Posts: 9,537
Bikes: https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=152015&p=1404231
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1523 Post(s)
Liked 716 Times
in
508 Posts
Why not test your theory by tweaking the RED cage into a more appropriate shape?
Maybe you can come up with a simple fix.
Maybe you can come up with a simple fix.
__________________
Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
Last edited by Kimmo; 09-16-11 at 07:13 AM.
#8
The Weird Beard
Join Date: May 2005
Location: COS
Posts: 8,554
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
I am going to print this thread and bring it across the street to the SRAM facility and see what they say. I think they are a bunch or engineers, so what better place to get a response?
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Qc,Canada
Posts: 995
Bikes: A trek
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 898
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
1 Post
SRAM knows the titanium cage isn't as good as the steel. Hence, why you can buy the steel cage Red version FD now. The pro teams have switched them a long time ago for more consistent shifting to the big ring. The titanium flexes too much, it isn't necessarily the design and the curves, more the material.
Put a steel cage on there, it will be golden. Also, mine shifts fine pretty much 90% of the time. Once in awhile going up to the big ring, it takes two attempts...but that could be many things, like the chainrings themselves etc...
But, I'm going to switch to a steel cage and test it anyway and see if it helps.
Somebody said if you call SRAM and complain, they will send you a steel cage no charge. I'm going to give that a try, but the titanium, although saves a few grams, isn't as good as the steel one.
Also, the thread title is misleading, you make a blanket statement that all SRAM derailleurs suck....which I guess all the pros and major wins they have on SRAM Red is a miracle and their stuff didn't shred and fall apart during a race.
Put a steel cage on there, it will be golden. Also, mine shifts fine pretty much 90% of the time. Once in awhile going up to the big ring, it takes two attempts...but that could be many things, like the chainrings themselves etc...
But, I'm going to switch to a steel cage and test it anyway and see if it helps.
Somebody said if you call SRAM and complain, they will send you a steel cage no charge. I'm going to give that a try, but the titanium, although saves a few grams, isn't as good as the steel one.
Also, the thread title is misleading, you make a blanket statement that all SRAM derailleurs suck....which I guess all the pros and major wins they have on SRAM Red is a miracle and their stuff didn't shred and fall apart during a race.
Last edited by zigmeister; 09-16-11 at 08:04 AM.
#12
Senior Member
The thread title specifically calls out Red FDs, not all sram. And maybe the OP didn't know there was a steel version, which is apparently what the pro's are winning on.
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 60
Bikes: 2012 S Works Tarmac SL4, 2013 Allez Race
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I ride full Red w/ an Ultegra 6700 FD and enjoy it. Only 20 grams heavier I think. Same throw ratio, but the shifter climb is much MUCH smoother. Shimano uses less spring tension than SRAM, so you don't feel like something just broke in your left shifter every time you down shift; Nor do you have to train w/ a grip master to upshift. I ran a Force FD for a bit to try it out, and I use that FD on my commuter, but I enjoy the Shimano smooth more.
#14
The Weird Beard
Join Date: May 2005
Location: COS
Posts: 8,554
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
I called SRAM myself and spoke to a nice woman named Danielle. If you have any questions about this, call them at 800-346-2928 - they answer quickly. It is their policy (and a good one) for vendors not to get involved in threads like this in a public forum (I haven't seen BD Mike in forever), but she said the Red Ti FD needs to be very carefully adjusted for minimal wear, but then this goes for any FD I am aware of.
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 853
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#16
master auto tech
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Hollister, ca.
Posts: 706
Bikes: ,system six ss, , caad9 cross, supersix evo hm, giant omiuim
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
mine shifts prefect, i'm using compact. did shift like **** with zipp cranks but with fsa rings pops up fast, my other bike has force fd and its no faster with cannondale rings. i think most of it is adjustment and using standard rings
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 156
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I ordered a Red FD from Bonktown recently. Figured for $75.00 I would take a chance. Will be using either a Force or Red compact crank. I bet it will work just fine.
#19
Senior Member
#20
Banned.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Carlsbad, CA
Posts: 6,434
Bikes: '09 Felt F55, '84 Masi Cran Criterium, (2)'86 Schwinn Pelotons, '86 Look Equippe Hinault, '09 Globe Live 3 (dogtaxi), '94 Greg Lemond, '99 GT Pulse Kinesis
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 389 Post(s)
Liked 269 Times
in
153 Posts
Must... not... stoop to SRAM-fanboi's level... must... not... tout Dura Ace 7800's superiority in a SRAM thread...
#22
John Wayne Toilet Paper
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Roanoke
Posts: 1,952
Bikes: BH carbon, Ritchey steel, Kona aluminum
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
The cage being made of titanium is WHY it's a crappy design. Stamping shapes into titanium is not very easy like it is with steel parts. It's just not as tough of a metal so the formability is very low. To attempt to put sharp bends in it (like you can with steel) will weaken it tremendously.
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 444
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
FD is not a problem. I ran a 6700 for a while as well while saving for a Red. Everyone at the LBS recommended the Force instead so I went that route anyway but the Force and Ultegra shifted very similarly.
#25
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: RTP, NC
Posts: 2,190
Bikes: LOOK 595 & Cannondale CAAD9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Sorry about the title guys. Yes, it is a little misleading. It was late when I posted it and I couldn't go back and edit it to say "Why SRAM Red front derailleurs suck."
I didn't know SRAM sells steel cage Red FDs. I thought they only provided these for the pros, not the average joe.
I don't think the issue is the titanium material itself. There was a metallurgist around here that commented in a thread that ti is actually stiffer than steel. When I give both cages a squeeze, one doesn't seem to flex more than the other. Maybe the manufacturing process of the ti cage limits the shape possibilities, but again, I don't think it's because of the material itself.
I didn't know SRAM sells steel cage Red FDs. I thought they only provided these for the pros, not the average joe.
I don't think the issue is the titanium material itself. There was a metallurgist around here that commented in a thread that ti is actually stiffer than steel. When I give both cages a squeeze, one doesn't seem to flex more than the other. Maybe the manufacturing process of the ti cage limits the shape possibilities, but again, I don't think it's because of the material itself.