Threshold power ceiling?
#26
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Thread Starter
i don't have much of value to add, but I have wondered about my ceiling, given I've started relatively late compared to others. and anytime I've sniffed 265 as my ftp I've had life stuff come up and sent me tumbling back to 230, where I'm at now. so I'm sensing 265 (around 3.7 w/kg if I'm at my good weight) may be my ceiling. not all that special but I'd take it over where I am now lol
The thing I would add here is that my impression is I've already surpassed many of the guys I ride with on the local A ride, who have ridden years and years and have put in many more miles than me both in the past and recently. I don't think it's due to me having better genetics. I think it's mainly that they do the same things over and over (same group rides, same kind of riding). They don't do structured training, many of them don't have power meters. They just do what they do, and as long as they fast enough to do the ride, they are fine. Even if they aren't fast enough to not be dropped, they'd rather do what they are doing rather than put in the hard work that is a real stimulus for improvement. That's my impression anyway. This time last year I had less than 100 miles to my name year-to-date and the idea of cruising around near 300watts would have been an absurd fantasy.
#27
Senior Member
I've bumped into a realistic ceiling of about 220w twice now. In 2010 I had a massive year and based on race and test numbers 220w was a realistic FTP. In 2015 I had a decent year and my best test was 218w.
I bet if I trained better and didn't work etc I could be better. However I am pretty sure that my max wouldn't be, say, 275w. Trying to do tests there's just no way to sustain the numbers required to test out at 275w. It's close to 30% higher than my best FTP.
Ceiling numbers, unless the coach knows some secret that no one else knows, is an educated guess at best. No one has been able to publicly quantify max FTP for a given rider.
I bet if I trained better and didn't work etc I could be better. However I am pretty sure that my max wouldn't be, say, 275w. Trying to do tests there's just no way to sustain the numbers required to test out at 275w. It's close to 30% higher than my best FTP.
Ceiling numbers, unless the coach knows some secret that no one else knows, is an educated guess at best. No one has been able to publicly quantify max FTP for a given rider.
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"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
#28
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My coach was just guessing, and he didn't mean anything more than a guess. We were talking in reference to a local rider that has an FTP approaching 400w. And just the idea that he has a gift that most of us do not. Obviously he worked his butt off to get there.
Racing is one thing (which I haven't done). Fitness testing is another. With fitness testing, we are really seeing how much our body can adapt. And that in and of itself is a reward (at least to me). Beating the other guy is a thing. But topping myself is also a thing. I like the challenge of improving.
Racing is one thing (which I haven't done). Fitness testing is another. With fitness testing, we are really seeing how much our body can adapt. And that in and of itself is a reward (at least to me). Beating the other guy is a thing. But topping myself is also a thing. I like the challenge of improving.
#30
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genetically, have u done a vo2 test in lab? if u have 40 or below, u might wanna stick to golf. if you have above 85, get some good coaching and hit the big leagues
#31
Senior Member
i don't have much of value to add, but I have wondered about my ceiling, given I've started relatively late compared to others. and anytime I've sniffed 265 as my ftp I've had life stuff come up and sent me tumbling back to 230, where I'm at now. so I'm sensing 265 (around 3.7 w/kg if I'm at my good weight) may be my ceiling. not all that special but I'd take it over where I am now lol
#32
Senior Member
i don't have much of value to add, but I have wondered about my ceiling, given I've started relatively late compared to others. and anytime I've sniffed 265 as my ftp I've had life stuff come up and sent me tumbling back to 230, where I'm at now. so I'm sensing 265 (around 3.7 w/kg if I'm at my good weight) may be my ceiling. not all that special but I'd take it over where I am now lol
#33
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But there are real numbers we can look at and come pretty close to human max. Wiggans said he needed to hold 485W for his world ITT ~<1 hour = FTP. Michal Kwiatkowski published his WC ride numbers - not near FTP but a long 500+W attack. Each person has different ranges that they are better in. From what I saw the teen males have the highest short term power of any although that is generally considered crazy talk until you hear TdF winners (Contador and Schleck) saying their max power is less than a teen boy.
So power alone is not all that useful of a number for most riders.
#36
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What sort of changes did you make to your workouts -- were the intervals more varied (bursts/fluctuating power), longer, more intense, etc.?
#37
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Once or twice a week of 5-6 min vo2 max intervals (25-30 mins total), and then progressing up to two and then three hour sweetspot intervals were the two biggest changes.