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Threshold power ceiling?

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Threshold power ceiling?

Old 03-10-17, 07:36 PM
  #26  
Radish_legs
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Originally Posted by hubcyclist
i don't have much of value to add, but I have wondered about my ceiling, given I've started relatively late compared to others. and anytime I've sniffed 265 as my ftp I've had life stuff come up and sent me tumbling back to 230, where I'm at now. so I'm sensing 265 (around 3.7 w/kg if I'm at my good weight) may be my ceiling. not all that special but I'd take it over where I am now lol
I'm close to your experience in that I started late, my FTP right now is about 275.

The thing I would add here is that my impression is I've already surpassed many of the guys I ride with on the local A ride, who have ridden years and years and have put in many more miles than me both in the past and recently. I don't think it's due to me having better genetics. I think it's mainly that they do the same things over and over (same group rides, same kind of riding). They don't do structured training, many of them don't have power meters. They just do what they do, and as long as they fast enough to do the ride, they are fine. Even if they aren't fast enough to not be dropped, they'd rather do what they are doing rather than put in the hard work that is a real stimulus for improvement. That's my impression anyway. This time last year I had less than 100 miles to my name year-to-date and the idea of cruising around near 300watts would have been an absurd fantasy.
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Old 03-10-17, 09:15 PM
  #27  
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I've bumped into a realistic ceiling of about 220w twice now. In 2010 I had a massive year and based on race and test numbers 220w was a realistic FTP. In 2015 I had a decent year and my best test was 218w.

I bet if I trained better and didn't work etc I could be better. However I am pretty sure that my max wouldn't be, say, 275w. Trying to do tests there's just no way to sustain the numbers required to test out at 275w. It's close to 30% higher than my best FTP.

Ceiling numbers, unless the coach knows some secret that no one else knows, is an educated guess at best. No one has been able to publicly quantify max FTP for a given rider.
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Old 03-10-17, 09:30 PM
  #28  
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My coach was just guessing, and he didn't mean anything more than a guess. We were talking in reference to a local rider that has an FTP approaching 400w. And just the idea that he has a gift that most of us do not. Obviously he worked his butt off to get there.

Racing is one thing (which I haven't done). Fitness testing is another. With fitness testing, we are really seeing how much our body can adapt. And that in and of itself is a reward (at least to me). Beating the other guy is a thing. But topping myself is also a thing. I like the challenge of improving.
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Old 03-11-17, 05:11 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Matt2.8NJ
I bought a new power meter that read 10 watts higher on average, and my FTP went up too! The investment clearly paid off.
If only that made you faster, too.
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Old 03-11-17, 06:06 AM
  #30  
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genetically, have u done a vo2 test in lab? if u have 40 or below, u might wanna stick to golf. if you have above 85, get some good coaching and hit the big leagues
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Old 03-11-17, 09:32 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by hubcyclist
i don't have much of value to add, but I have wondered about my ceiling, given I've started relatively late compared to others. and anytime I've sniffed 265 as my ftp I've had life stuff come up and sent me tumbling back to 230, where I'm at now. so I'm sensing 265 (around 3.7 w/kg if I'm at my good weight) may be my ceiling. not all that special but I'd take it over where I am now lol
It's pretty unlikely that's your max. You've been training for, what, two years? And you're constantly having interruptions, you haven't carved out a consistent schedule, you're not really following a long-term plan... development takes time. Believe me, any FTP number you've actually achieved as of now is not your genetic ceiling, and probably not all that close to it.
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Old 03-11-17, 12:26 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by hubcyclist
i don't have much of value to add, but I have wondered about my ceiling, given I've started relatively late compared to others. and anytime I've sniffed 265 as my ftp I've had life stuff come up and sent me tumbling back to 230, where I'm at now. so I'm sensing 265 (around 3.7 w/kg if I'm at my good weight) may be my ceiling. not all that special but I'd take it over where I am now lol
yeah i'm much smaller than you and about as un athletically gifted as they come and have a higher ftp than that so I would put money on your ceiling being much higher.
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Old 03-11-17, 05:34 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Radish_legs
My coach was just guessing, and he didn't mean anything more than a guess. We were talking in reference to a local rider that has an FTP approaching 400w. And just the idea that he has a gift that most of us do not. Obviously he worked his butt off to get there.
...
I think you need to have people around you that give you the hard facts (guesses). There is a limit. I don't think it is too hard to guess for an experienced person. I rather trust an experienced guess over a lab test.

But there are real numbers we can look at and come pretty close to human max. Wiggans said he needed to hold 485W for his world ITT ~<1 hour = FTP. Michal Kwiatkowski published his WC ride numbers - not near FTP but a long 500+W attack. Each person has different ranges that they are better in. From what I saw the teen males have the highest short term power of any although that is generally considered crazy talk until you hear TdF winners (Contador and Schleck) saying their max power is less than a teen boy.
So power alone is not all that useful of a number for most riders.
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Old 03-11-17, 09:40 PM
  #34  
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I'm running about 450 lately but I'm not on my best form yet this year.
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Old 03-12-17, 02:04 PM
  #35  
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Genetic ceiling is one point to consider. Another is how well you respond to what types of training.
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Old 03-19-17, 04:49 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval
After 10 or so years I thought I'd reached an FTP ceiling. Then I started focusing on workouts I hadn't done before and whadaya know, FTP went up 15 watts.

Stimulus -> response. Just gotta keep working that stimulus.
What sort of changes did you make to your workouts -- were the intervals more varied (bursts/fluctuating power), longer, more intense, etc.?
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Old 03-19-17, 08:01 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Tunic
What sort of changes did you make to your workouts -- were the intervals more varied (bursts/fluctuating power), longer, more intense, etc.?

Once or twice a week of 5-6 min vo2 max intervals (25-30 mins total), and then progressing up to two and then three hour sweetspot intervals were the two biggest changes.
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