Garfield Cat

Steel alloys will always have that certain feel. The thing is rider comfort and performance.

In the older models of Cervelo, the 3T forks were bladed all the way up to the crown. Now take a look at the more recent Cervelo bikes. The forks are now designed with integration with the head tube (now tapered). I would say all the high end road bikes have this design.

What does this mean? The fast descent in hills with switchbacks will allow the rider to hold the line without the loss of control feeling.

Commutess

It depends. Carbon fiber production needs to be done perfectly to have all the attributes for longevity. So, you must really trust the manufacturer. The biggest issue is that carbon fiber can get damaged very easily which compromises the integrity. It can be repaired, but then again, you have to trust the repair or have a possible catastrophic failure.

TimothyH

Much of this is misinformation.

Aerospace carbon fiber has be be built perfectly - no voids, wrinkles, etc. Aerospace components have a service life. The service life is when it is removed from service as a precaution, not because the part is compromised.

Carbon bicycle components are not built to aerospace spec. No bike frame is perfect. On the contrary, they are far from perfect and many carbon frames last decades. The service life of any carbon bicycle component can be indefinite. Bike components don't have to be removed from service just because of age or miles or hours of use.

As to "damaged very easily," I'll just point out that big hit downhill mountain bikes are made of carbon fiber.


-Tim-

satrain18

rosefarts

I rode Elephant Rock in Colorado today. They claim 7000 riders, I don’t know, it wasn’t that crowded.

Anyway, I saw a guy on an Independent, a guy on some 70s beauty, me on my Tallerico, and a Davidson. I didn’t see everybody but I did see hundreds of bikes or more. Does the guy on the Penny Farthing count?

From that sample, this isn’t even a debate anymore. There are statistically no steel bikes.

I still like mine.

Rollfast

My steel Guru weighs 17 lb 13 oz or thereabouts. I have that college football player body and weigh in at 190 lbs. Rides like a "wet noodle"? Hardly.[/QUOTE]

I don't tend to ride wet noodles though, I tend to eat them with a nice sauce.

Rollfast

One going down and one going UP, I'm so confused!

NeilBurt

Steel gets a bad rap because your average person gets theirs out a couple times a year, does no maintenance to it, rides it. They sound scissory as they go down the trail where I ride.

A lady broke down, I stopped to help, there wasn't anything I could do, that bike needed help everywhere it was in such disrepair. It's sad, but that's your average steel bike.

My carbon fiber bike glides through air as I ride, leaving little disruption, all one hears is silence, or the swoosh of my pedals. I love my carbon fiber bike, but in 4 years I'll be thinking about getting a new one. At my age, I'll not be getting anymore muscle, my lungs won't be expanding to absorb more oxygen, so in the pursuit of free speed, I will upgrade. I like how the cycling industry has advanced, and enjoy using the new upgrades, steel, for me, feels like I'm taking a step backwards, sorry.

drbarney1

Steel is good enough for me, a couple of pounds heavier than more expensive alternatives does not matter since I do not compete in races.

bruce19

I don't tend to ride wet noodles though, I tend to eat them with a nice sauce.[/QUOTE]

I would go with a Puttanesca.

livedarklions

I would go with a Puttanesca.[/QUOTE]

Frames should definitely be al dente.

bruce19

Frames should definitely be al dente.[/QUOTE]

Unless they're CF. Then we're talking crackers.

Cl904

My $20 steel bike is silent too... 🤷*♂️

RiceAWay

There is another thing: A friend of mine had his Colnago C40 simply fall apart. At the time this happened he was going about 5 mph riding up onto a bicycle path. 20 minutes later he would have crossed the Golden Gate Bridge and been descending into Sausalito at 40 mph.

Now he will not touch carbon fiber anything and had custom Italian steel bikes made for himself and his wife. Every time carbon fiber is mentioned now he says that all of these carbon fiber parts will break like glass. And since the simple little crash broke his finger in such a manner that it is paralyzed you can understand him.

I also have three carbon fiber forks break on me. But I'm an engineer and understand the learning curve of using new materials. To my mind we have matured the carbon fiber construction techniques and design.

But having an intellectual conviction and not having it come up in your mind as you're descending at 40 mph are two different things. Especially when you have car traffic speeding by. So even though I know that there are any number of things that could fail and dump you into the path of a speeding car I end up slowing up all the time as the "breaking like glass" comment passes through my mind on steep descents. And this despite the fact that I am only VERY seldom passed on descents.

I also know that of all the steel bikes I've owned not a one of them has failed. And I have a serious concussion, 2 years walking and talking and not being there until I was on the verge of dying from not even remembering to eat until my NCIS friend took me to Stanford University medical center and they suggested a neurologist who treated it properly. I have to take $100 of pills a month that destroy my sense of balance for the rest of my life. So it is a good thing that bicycles balance themselves. So having an early carbon fiber fork actually explode like a gunshot goes through my mind whenever I'm riding non-steel frames and forks.

Modern bicycles are made for lightness. Aluminum wheelsets wear out RAPIDLY. Steel and aluminum frames and forks cannot be repaired. While CF frames can be repaired (NOT FORKS) and CF wheels with rim brakes have about the same lifespan as lightweight aluminum wheelsets, everyone is going to have their own tastes. I am a 75 year old sports riding and my worrying about 5lbs difference in overall weight of a frame would be silly. I have two steel bikes, two aluminum bikes and two carbon fiber bikes. My average speed over known courses with climbing on them is within fractional mph and it doesn't seem to have anything to do with the 5 lb difference in weight from the lightest to the heaviest. It is far more dependent upon how I feel that way.

So buy the bike that you want to buy and not what someone tells you that you should. I can tell you absolutely I would NOT buy disk brake, electric shifting, titanium bikes or super light CF bikes. Paying $10,000 for one of these strikes me as the height of ignorance. A Cat 1 racer couldn't tell the difference between that an old DeRosa with worn Campagnolo 9 speed shifting. There is FAR more difference between cheap and expensive tires.

So high quality is not the material but the workmanship and that has been around for decades.

TimothyH

I think now would be a good time to take a deep breath, pour a fresh cup of coffee and summarize what we have learned in this thread. So far we have concluded the following:

• Carbon forks feel more "skittish" going down hill
• Aluminum is not good for long distances
• Titanium is steel
• Carbon cannot be repaired
• Steel can be subjected to an infinite amount of flex
• CF bikes accelerate to top speed several seconds faster than steel bikes
• Carbon is just a bunch of plastic held together with some epoxy and it's weak and fragile
• a frame is steel for a reason
• Steel is only good if you weigh no more than 150-160 lbs
• Weight only matters for competition
• All you need to build a bike is a torch and some brazing rod. A guy can do it in his garage.
• A 1983 Miyata 710 and Emonda ALR are the same bike
• People who ride high end carbon frames are at least 45 lb heavier than people who ride steel frames
• Steel is best for keeping track of wheel magnets
• Steel bikes go faster downhill due to gravitational pull
• aluminum and carbon fiber have a shelf life
• Carbon fiber glides through air and is silent

This thread has been really great for me. Such a great resource. I've learned a lot. This should be a sticky.



-Tim

livedarklions

Needs noodles.

base2 

Ha! That's classic!
Thanks for the laugh

Camilo

The only reasonable solution is to have one each: carbonfiber, titanium, steel and aluminum. I just completed my collection this spring and now wonder what to spend money on. Oh, and they're all great bikes, work perfectly, are comfortable and beautiful.

Ooo, ooo ooo - just remembered, I gotta get a bamboo frame!

subgrade

There are also scandium frames (well, in fact they are aluminum alloys too, but are considerably lighter than conventional aluminum alloy frames). KONAWORLD.COM

And then there are wooden frames. https://materiabikes.com/#bikes

Reynolds 

And magnesium too.

base2 

I still want one made of wet noodle.

molten

I'm a victim from a longtime (used to be) friend scamming my OLDEST of my CLASSIC STEEL bike I have. As he knew very well the composition & general value of it. With its classic groupset. As I originally assigned him to sell it for me (that meant it being in my original ownership). But all he was assigned, by me, to do was with-hold the bike in his business, for the sake of displaying its selling status. (as the bike was still in my ownership) Rather, I found out later, my bike that I relied that he sell privately on his private property --- was disassembled by him * taken to a swap meet..

mstateglfr 

You gave an old bike with a classic groupset to a friend to sell, then apparently wanted the friend to display it and not sell it, and ultimately that longtime friend scammed your oldest kid and bought the bike?

molten

Correction to mstateglfr: The then-friend was only reputed to sell his bicycle/parts inventory out of his home. Of all the years I knew him, I never knew of his going to the swap meet to sell, Of all the years I knew him, he was very open in how he did his business of bicycles. Of the several bike shops he has owned -- and is no longer on the premises: I don't know if the then-friend who was the original owner of these bike shops has sold them or if new managment has simply been put in. But the-above-original-owner stays active by going to swap meet. And has another selling online. There be no "kid" as you said, involved in this. I simply assigned a long-known friend to sell one of my bikes, as there was to be a commission paid on the sale. But rather I was given 2 payments, in cash, that total only a fraction of what I would have asked as a selling price. In how I knew him from our pasttimes, he was not going by his original self.
If I just was not in the status of another telling me that I had to sell one of my bikes, this would not have happened: as reliable Local selling sources are hard to come by.

livedarklions

I can see why you'd be mad about getting less money than you bargained for, but why would anyone care where it was sold?