Apartments and tubular tires
08-21-19, 04:35 PM
#26
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Spare yourself; aside from the messy hassle it's a perfectionist's nightmare. Tight sections of tyre are thinner, and it can be twisted from side to side, and you've gotta stretch and reposition the tyre bit by bit until it's as good as you can be bothered with, all the while fighting the glue and trying not to spread it everywhere...
You get better with practice, but these days why bother when we have tape. Put the tape on, put the tyre on and get it straight with relative ease, peel out the backing tape. No stench, no sticky fingers, no wobbly tyres, no endless buildup of festy crud on your rims.
You get better with practice, but these days why bother when we have tape. Put the tape on, put the tyre on and get it straight with relative ease, peel out the backing tape. No stench, no sticky fingers, no wobbly tyres, no endless buildup of festy crud on your rims.
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08-21-19, 04:38 PM
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It is not just racing. My tandem came with these by tandem standards light - 24 hole clinchers.
They were harsh, would take 130PSI.
These tubular shoes knocked about 2# off the weight (tires, tubes, rims, hubs - all in). We went from stiff clincher 23mm to 27mm front, 28mm rear, increased ride and we go 1-2 mph faster. Our 2 hour ride finished about 10 min sooner. Just on the wheels.
They were harsh, would take 130PSI.
These tubular shoes knocked about 2# off the weight (tires, tubes, rims, hubs - all in). We went from stiff clincher 23mm to 27mm front, 28mm rear, increased ride and we go 1-2 mph faster. Our 2 hour ride finished about 10 min sooner. Just on the wheels.
08-21-19, 05:00 PM
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Spare yourself; aside from the messy hassle it's a perfectionist's nightmare. Tight sections of tyre are thinner, and it can be twisted from side to side, and you've gotta stretch and reposition the tyre bit by bit until it's as good as you can be bothered with, all the while fighting the glue and trying not to spread it everywhere...
You get better with practice, but these days why bother when we have tape. Put the tape on, put the tyre on and get it straight with relative ease, peel out the backing tape. No stench, no sticky fingers, no wobbly tyres, no endless buildup of festy crud on your rims.
You get better with practice, but these days why bother when we have tape. Put the tape on, put the tyre on and get it straight with relative ease, peel out the backing tape. No stench, no sticky fingers, no wobbly tyres, no endless buildup of festy crud on your rims.
Or you can perfectly glue, use compression to seat the tire, clean it up the next day. Takes a lot more work and a lot more fun.
If you want to save all that work - drive a car.
08-21-19, 05:10 PM
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I thought there was more than one kind. My Caden 3M stuff looks about 0.3mm thick, and I can barely compress half an inch of it on the roll. Hard to imagine it contributing any squish to speak of.
Mind you, I'm not sure I'd trust it under a tyre with a dry base tape, like on a Conti. The base tape on my Vittorias is rubberised like the sidewalls. Do folks who use tape put a layer of glue on dry tyres?
Mind you, I'm not sure I'd trust it under a tyre with a dry base tape, like on a Conti. The base tape on my Vittorias is rubberised like the sidewalls. Do folks who use tape put a layer of glue on dry tyres?
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Last edited by Kimmo; 08-21-19 at 05:14 PM.
08-21-19, 05:35 PM
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I thought there was more than one kind. My Caden 3M stuff looks about 0.3mm thick, and I can barely compress half an inch of it on the roll. Hard to imagine it contributing any squish to speak of.
Mind you, I'm not sure I'd trust it under a tyre with a dry base tape, like on a Conti. The base tape on my Vittorias is rubberised like the sidewalls. Do folks who use tape put a layer of glue on dry tyres?
Mind you, I'm not sure I'd trust it under a tyre with a dry base tape, like on a Conti. The base tape on my Vittorias is rubberised like the sidewalls. Do folks who use tape put a layer of glue on dry tyres?
I always put glue on the base tape - after the rim.
There are different glue methods for different applications. A cobble (Belgium glue job) is thicker in the center and used to be a tackier glue. The idea was you were going to break the seal on a cobble and the tire would self heal, or you were going to flat and you needed the new tire to stick.
Now most use Vittoria Mastic One. It dries hard. New (American designed) rims are often high on the sides and you can get a very good connection, and therefore eliminate that movement that increases rolling resistance.
I totally understand why someone would not want to be bothered. As I implied, most (on this forum) don't do this for convenience, it rather a hobby. If you want to take the time, a good tubular with a good glue job is not going to be beaten in anything but seating better. That might matter in a flat smooth ITT, or track. Anything else, I expect the pros will still be using tubulars for a few more generations when performance matters more than convenience.
08-21-19, 06:11 PM
#31
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I totally understand why someone would not want to be bothered. As I implied, most (on this forum) don't do this for convenience, it rather a hobby. If you want to take the time, a good tubular with a good glue job is not going to be beaten in anything but seating better. That might matter in a flat smooth ITT, or track. Anything else, I expect the pros will still be using tubulars for a few more generations when performance matters more than convenience.
But I think the assumption that tyre tape can't be better than glue could be mistaken; it hasn't been around very long, and is still improving. This dude reckoned two years ago it was already better:
The scenario of 3M coming into this space and repurposing one of their existing adhesives, and beating ye olde shellac/mastic/whatevs in one go, isn't that implausible to me.
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Last edited by Kimmo; 08-21-19 at 06:19 PM.
08-21-19, 06:57 PM
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And I totally understand if gluing tubs is a holy ritual performed in meditative bliss in front of your Fausto Coppi shrine. I can see the appeal; glorying in hallowed tradition, enjoying a low-grade buzz from the glue fumes, an excuse to go and hide in the shed, I totally get it. If something better than bar tape comes along, I'll probably keep using tape.
But I think the assumption that tyre tape can't be better than glue could be mistaken; it hasn't been around very long, and is still improving. This dude reckoned two years ago it was already better:
....
The scenario of 3M coming into this space and repurposing one of their existing adhesives, and beating ye olde shellac/mastic/whatevs in one go, isn't that implausible to me.
But I think the assumption that tyre tape can't be better than glue could be mistaken; it hasn't been around very long, and is still improving. This dude reckoned two years ago it was already better:
....
The scenario of 3M coming into this space and repurposing one of their existing adhesives, and beating ye olde shellac/mastic/whatevs in one go, isn't that implausible to me.
I wouldn't glue the center as done with the tape. And if it added 5g (it does) I just wouldn't do it. But I expect tape works for the 99% :-)
Maybe the decline of tubular use is due to tape. No more passion.
But, yes, I turn on the tunes (actually fantastic artists) and glue here.
08-21-19, 07:17 PM
#33
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Nice. You should change your desktop wallpaper so the monitor in the picture is showing... /gets tangled in recursion
You know what I mean 😜
You know what I mean 😜
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08-21-19, 08:31 PM
#34
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I didn't actually cite racing performance as my top two reasons for trying tubulars in the OP, but I would very much appreciate the ability to finish a lap in a crit on a flat tubular. Easier than changing a tube just to get back to my car. That said I really don't have anything against carbon clinchers - I'm not worried about braking heat. There isn't a descent within hundreds of miles of me that would challenge rim brakes.
Mainly I would like to become proficient at gluing tubs before they (inevitably?) go extinct in a decade or so. I feel like I need to see what all the fuss is about over ride quality. Some people have said they don't notice a difference compared to quality clinchers with latex tubes, others do. And as conservative as the pros can be, I doubt they use tubs mostly for historical reasons. They probably do it because they don't have to glue the tires on themselves!
After doing some searching, it looks like a set of lightly used carbon tubular rims might be the smartest way to get into this. Plenty of choices compared to new wheels and somewhat cheaper too.
Mainly I would like to become proficient at gluing tubs before they (inevitably?) go extinct in a decade or so. I feel like I need to see what all the fuss is about over ride quality. Some people have said they don't notice a difference compared to quality clinchers with latex tubes, others do. And as conservative as the pros can be, I doubt they use tubs mostly for historical reasons. They probably do it because they don't have to glue the tires on themselves!
After doing some searching, it looks like a set of lightly used carbon tubular rims might be the smartest way to get into this. Plenty of choices compared to new wheels and somewhat cheaper too.
No one races crits with spare tubes and saddle bag. Unless you are like me and forget to take it off. lolWell I am not telling OP what to get, just offering perspective.
08-22-19, 12:20 AM
#35
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FYI. Crit courses are under a mile and most of the time you can cut a cross. There is a reason why there is a wheel pit with spare wheels. What I am trying to say is that getting back to start/finish/car with a flat is not an issue. No one races crits with spare tubes and saddle bag. Unless you are like me and forget to take it off. lol
No one races crits with spare tubes and saddle bag. Unless you are like me and forget to take it off. lol
I'm not put off by the time and hassle of tubulars. It's not like I have kids to take to soccer practice or anything; I might as well do something that enhances my riding enjoyment. I like taking corners fast and I look forward to seeing if tubulars offer any improvements there. And if I can get pretty decent at gluing them on, I will totally look down on everybody who can't be bothered! Hahaha!
Likes For McNamara:
08-22-19, 11:03 AM
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In terms of fumes, assuming a window can be opened,
indoor gluing is not going to be much different between an apartment, house, or whatever.
Scraping old glue off the rims is a bit messy- not great over carpet.
For the cost/benefit equation, riding a $200 set of used tubular race wheels is a much more freeing experience than worrying about
getting a scratch on your $$$ carbon clinchers, 'tho this gap has closed with China carbon these days....
indoor gluing is not going to be much different between an apartment, house, or whatever.
Scraping old glue off the rims is a bit messy- not great over carpet.
For the cost/benefit equation, riding a $200 set of used tubular race wheels is a much more freeing experience than worrying about
getting a scratch on your $$$ carbon clinchers, 'tho this gap has closed with China carbon these days....
08-22-19, 11:51 AM
#37
☢
Hmm, I don't think that came out right?
08-22-19, 09:51 PM
#39
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Not sure yet. I've seen some decently priced used Zipp 303s locally and even some Bora 50s. There's also a wheelbuilder in my state that has really reasonable prices - Cantu. I met them at the HHH100 expo a few years back. I'd certainly appreciate recommendations for 40-60mm depth carbon rims, preferably under $2.5k if new for a set.
Would it also make sense to get a cheaper set of aluminum tubular wheels as well? Something to practice on or at least stretch spare tires on.
As for tires, Vittoria seems like a safe bet and easy to find online. Might try Veloflex too.
Would it also make sense to get a cheaper set of aluminum tubular wheels as well? Something to practice on or at least stretch spare tires on.
As for tires, Vittoria seems like a safe bet and easy to find online. Might try Veloflex too.
08-23-19, 12:13 AM
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If it's for one bike, it's a bother to swap brake pads.
I pretty much use carbon on the road bike and alloy on the CX.
Why would you spend $2.5k on wheels? Especially tubulars, which are simpler & should cost less.
Yoleos for <$500 would be 96% as good.
60mm has gone out of fashion, except maybe for time trials.
I pretty much use carbon on the road bike and alloy on the CX.
Why would you spend $2.5k on wheels? Especially tubulars, which are simpler & should cost less.
Yoleos for <$500 would be 96% as good.
60mm has gone out of fashion, except maybe for time trials.
08-24-19, 01:46 PM
#41
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If it's for one bike, it's a bother to swap brake pads.
I pretty much use carbon on the road bike and alloy on the CX.
Why would you spend $2.5k on wheels? Especially tubulars, which are simpler & should cost less.
Yoleos for <$500 would be 96% as good.
60mm has gone out of fashion, except maybe for time trials.
I pretty much use carbon on the road bike and alloy on the CX.
Why would you spend $2.5k on wheels? Especially tubulars, which are simpler & should cost less.
Yoleos for <$500 would be 96% as good.
60mm has gone out of fashion, except maybe for time trials.
Why $2500, I suppose because that's around the usual price I see for good "established" wheelsets. I'd rather buy used to save money, so hopefully more like $1-1.5k. I've only ever heard of Yoeleos through the internet but I suppose I'd be willing to give them a try - though the ones with decent hubs look closer to $900.
60mm out of fashion? I see plenty of road bikes wearing rims over 50mm deep around here. Not much climbing in north Texas.
I should have known this thread would expand beyond my original question! I really do appreciate everyone's responses.
08-24-19, 07:03 PM
#42
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I pretty much only ever ride my race bike. The steel one is for riding to the bar with my girlfriend or lending to friends. So I'll either be swapping pads or keeping the carbon rims on there full time.
Why $2500, I suppose because that's around the usual price I see for good "established" wheelsets. I'd rather buy used to save money, so hopefully more like $1-1.5k. I've only ever heard of Yoeleos through the internet but I suppose I'd be willing to give them a try - though the ones with decent hubs look closer to $900.
60mm out of fashion? I see plenty of road bikes wearing rims over 50mm deep around here. Not much climbing in north Texas.
I should have known this thread would expand beyond my original question! I really do appreciate everyone's responses.
Why $2500, I suppose because that's around the usual price I see for good "established" wheelsets. I'd rather buy used to save money, so hopefully more like $1-1.5k. I've only ever heard of Yoeleos through the internet but I suppose I'd be willing to give them a try - though the ones with decent hubs look closer to $900.
60mm out of fashion? I see plenty of road bikes wearing rims over 50mm deep around here. Not much climbing in north Texas.
I should have known this thread would expand beyond my original question! I really do appreciate everyone's responses.
Hmm, Yoleo prices have gone up since I last checked! My everyday wheels are 50mm of these that I got for $200, & they've been great for ~5k miles so far.
In my area, Craigslist has plentiful listings for tubular wheelsets but maybe not so much in yours.
Ebay is worth checking, 'tho shipping costs are substantial. The Pro's Closet is a good seller for well-vetted race oriented stuff.
For utility tubular wheels- these are great, cheap, and still quite available. I have two sets. Mavic freehub takes 11 speed cassettes.
https://sacramento.craigslist.org/bo...961868308.html
For carbon, I look for something like this (I'm on 10 speed):
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bop...963062293.html
08-24-19, 07:06 PM
#43
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I pretty much only ever ride my race bike. The steel one is for riding to the bar with my girlfriend or lending to friends. So I'll either be swapping pads or keeping the carbon rims on there full time.
Why $2500, I suppose because that's around the usual price I see for good "established" wheelsets. I'd rather buy used to save money, so hopefully more like $1-1.5k. I've only ever heard of Yoeleos through the internet but I suppose I'd be willing to give them a try - though the ones with decent hubs look closer to $900.
60mm out of fashion? I see plenty of road bikes wearing rims over 50mm deep around here. Not much climbing in north Texas.
I should have known this thread would expand beyond my original question! I really do appreciate everyone's responses.
Why $2500, I suppose because that's around the usual price I see for good "established" wheelsets. I'd rather buy used to save money, so hopefully more like $1-1.5k. I've only ever heard of Yoeleos through the internet but I suppose I'd be willing to give them a try - though the ones with decent hubs look closer to $900.
60mm out of fashion? I see plenty of road bikes wearing rims over 50mm deep around here. Not much climbing in north Texas.
I should have known this thread would expand beyond my original question! I really do appreciate everyone's responses.
Hmm, Yoleo prices have gone up since I last checked! My everyday wheels are 50mm of these that I got for $200, & they've been great for ~5k miles so far.
In my area, Craigslist has plentiful listings for tubular wheelsets but maybe not so much in yours.
Ebay is worth checking, 'tho shipping costs are substantial. The Pro's Closet is a good seller for well-vetted race oriented stuff.
For utility tubular wheels- these are great, cheap, and still quite available. I have two sets. Mavic freehub takes 11 speed cassettes.
https://sacramento.craigslist.org/bo...961868308.html (oh, those are campy, but there are 2 other listings near me for $200 for barely used.)
For carbon, I look for something like this (I'm on 10 speed):
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bop...963062293.html
08-24-19, 11:20 PM
#44
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That's funny, I was just looking at HED Stingers online today. And my bike currently has Ksyrium clinchers, I really like them (also on 10 speed myself). There's a set of Ksyrium tubulars in my area on Facebook marketplace - which is also where I found my set of rollers. I'll probably get a used power meter the same way.
08-24-19, 11:45 PM
#45
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That's funny, I was just looking at HED Stingers online today. And my bike currently has Ksyrium clinchers, I really like them (also on 10 speed myself). There's a set of Ksyrium tubulars in my area on Facebook marketplace - which is also where I found my set of rollers. I'll probably get a used power meter the same way.
There you go- a whole bunch of that stuff & lots of $ left over from $2,500.00.
Plus you don't end up thinking "I better not ride off this curb or take that dirt route because I might ding my expensive wheels".
