Beesley

I'd love to know where I could buy a 48v/1000w complete kit, sans battery (like the one he purchased, which includes Motorized wheel + Controller + Throttles (split-twist & thumb) + Brake handles + PAS + Torque arms) for $170. Could you please provide a link? I have been researching for about a month now and haven't seen a package with that much included for anywhere near $170. Thanks In Advance!

EBikeFL 

Ok, Ponchera and the ebike community. Your post got me motivated to work on my ebike. I've been very busy the last few weeks and haven't had a chance to spend time on it.

I've been in communication with pitlock over the rear wheel's bolt and trying to use a pitlock on it. I don't think it's feasible at this time. The best bet is to use a good lock when securing the bike and lock the frame with the rear wheel.

However, the seat post and front wheel are good candidates for pitlocks. You will need to use pitlock's saddle clamp to give the lock a flat surface to rest against (https://pitlock.com/to-the-shop/uncod...ddle-clamp.php)

I haven't gotten around to looking into the GPS options. If anyone on this forum has had success with the company I had a link to in my earlier posts please let us know.

I installed the Topeak bar extender (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...00_i00_details) and wanted to say this is by far the best product I've installed so far on my bike. It allowed me to install the bicygnals (https://www.bikemania.biz/Bicygnals_I...als_bic241.htm) front light.

The PAS magnet ring from Papamotors will need to be dremeled before I can install it. It does not fit the Kona bottom bracket.

The Otivia cargo cache would be able to hold two Ping 48v 15Ah batteries if it was a bit larger. The bikeforum member who had posted the layout map for it did not take into account that the battery could be placed vertically on its height side. If the the cargo cache was a bit bigger you could install two Ping batteries side to side. I have a great idea for a cargo cache that meets all my requirements but it will require some financial investment to developing. Maybe in the near future I can design and build it.

The cycle analyst clamp needs more support. The rubber pieces that came with it don't allow the clamp to compress down far enough to hold it securely on my handlebar. I will be making a visit to Home Depot/Lowe's soon to pick up what I need along with some other items to complete the installation.

I did come across and ordered additional Anderson Powerpoles from https://www.powerwerx.com/anderson-powerpoles/. They have the best prices on Anderson connectors I could find and shipped my order fast. You need four to install the cycle analyst; unfortunately, ebike.ca did not provide them because customers could have varying ebike kits.

The Topeak bike rack arms that attach below the seat post are too short and I will have to come up with my own solution to attaching them. Again, Home Depot/Lowe's will have what I need. There are extensions from Topeak but they will not be in stock until June.

Here are some pictures I took today after working on the installation. The first is a bit blurry but the second came out great. I have not tightened down the cycle analyst, throttle, or combo brake handles yet.

Someone mentioned on this forum about using small ball bearings along with hot glue inside the bolt holes to prevent someone from unscrewing anything. So I picked up 3/16" bearings from Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...00_i00_details) that will work great.

04152012_Update1.jpg04152012_Update2.jpg

Stay tuned...more to come.

Oh...I don't know what universe Papamotors timed their installation but it's taking a LOT longer than their five minute claim.

EBikeFL 

Beesley, that amount of $170 Sangesf calculated is the profit Papamotors made on my 48v 1000w kit not what the kit sells for.

Beesley

Actually, no Read it again. He said the kit was $170, and that they made $183 profit.

"Ping ships separately as they don't stock it, they just buy it and have him ship it to you...
$533 for ping battery... $80 shipping, $170 for kit + $30 shipping..
$813 total and you paid $1,000, so they made $183"

So he's implying we can buy the parts individually - $613 total for the battery + $200 total for the "kit" = $813 -- which equals the "so they made $183 off of you" since he spent $1000

So again, I'm still wondering where I can find a kit, sans battery, for $170+$30 shipping.

Thanks guys.

EBikeFL 

Thanks, Beesley.

Looking at the shipping numbers Sangesf quoted I noticed after speaking with Li Ping that the shipping costs for the 48v 15Ah battery plus a charger (2A or 5A) is $109 not $80. The $30 shipping is suspect too for the kit sans battery.

I've been looking at what it would cost to replace my 48v 1000w hub motor should it break down and I can't seem to find anything less than $200.

The Magic Pie 3 (https://www.goldenmotor.ca/products/2...rsion-Kit.html) looks very interesting with a built in cooling fan.

In other news, I have installed the PAS after making modifications to the magnet holder. It has a very snug fit with the magnetic circular disk...less than the 3 mm suggested in the instructions so I hope it still works. Trying to install it on the pedal only side would interfere with the dual kickstand and it would easily get hit being so exposed. If I don't get it to work where it is I'll have no other option but to move it to the pedal only side.

Here's the pictures:

Stay tuned...more to come!

EBikeFL 

Hello, forum members.

I spent several hours just now putting the rear hub motor along with the ebike.ca rear torque arms on. I had to make several modifications to the Papamotors rear hub installation parts. There are silver cylinders on both sides of the hub which slide onto the hub axle. I had to dremel one side in order to get the axle to fit. I was also able to use my Kona rear brake kit though it needs another bracket instead of the stock bracket to lower it further onto the 160 mm rear brake disc. I will also need to purchase and install a whole new longer rear brake cable. I also painted the rear brake extension bracket with Rustoleum spray paint though during the install the paint job took some abuse. It may be hard to tell from the attached pictures all the modifications I made.

The four Anderson connectors were an absolute joy to install on the exposed cycle analyst wires. I couldn't believe how easy it was and started looking around the house for wires I could extend my new found electrical happiness too. I've attached a picture of the four connectors.

I coated one of the two piece rear torque arms with a rubber coating but I think they would have been better off left as is. I didn't want to have metal on metal contact so I figured the rubber coating would help. Perhaps a thin rubber gasket between the torque arm and the rear fork would've been better. You can see the silver and black rubber coated torque arm pieces in the picture.

The ebike.ca rear torque arms are 1/4 inch thick and they mean business. I don't think you'll find a thicker torque arm.

I have the pitlocks for the seat and front wheel on order; they may arrive tomorrow.

I will use some liquid weather stripping to seal the hole where the hub motor wire comes out of the rear axle. This should prevent any water from going into the hub.

I also have a component for the cargo cache arriving tomorrow. I have several ideas for the cargo cache I've been mulling over.

Pictures of the today's work:

Stay tuned...more to come!

EBikeFL 

I installed the front wheel pitlock. The seat post collar I ordered is too small. I will get the correct size on my next visit to the bike shop. Hopefully, they have collars that are flat on both sides which is the requirement for installing a pitlock.

The bike shop is also modifying the rear brake bracket. I probably could have made the adjustments myself but I'll see how good a job they do. I had to pick up a longer rear brake cable anyway so I figured on letting them make the cuts.

The bike shop technician never heard of Pitlock.

Here are before and after pictures of the Pitlock on the front wheel. The Pitlock option I chose was to have only one side with the lock which also happened to be cheaper.



On the way back from the bike shop, I noticed a bicycle that was moving very fast (20+ mph) and as I approached him I noticed the bicycle was equipped with a small engine.

Papamotors has increased the 48v 1000w kit by $50.

Stay tuned...more to come.

EBikeFL 

I watched a very interesting documentary just now and thought you may be interested in seeing it. I don't want this thread to get political but everyone should watch this https://www.amazon.com/Crude-Awakenin...655145&sr=1-79

If your an Amazon prime customer then it is free to watch.

The documentary is also on youtube at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sMF1...eature=related

Pay particular attention to the first few paragraphs and bottom half of this article: https://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=55943

Watch the last half hour of this UCSB lecture: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7h4V...eature=related

We will get back to the ebike conversion shortly.

Stay tuned...more to come.

EBikeFL 

I was able to get a lot of work done on the e-bike today. The two metal braces that came with the bicycle rack worked after all. I thought they were two short because I had tried to get the bicycle rack flat with the bicycle on the stand with the frame level; however, the frame isn't level when the bicycle is on its wheels.

I installed the new rear brake cable.

I temporarily installed the cargo cache which will eventually hold two Ping 48v 15Ah batteries, two battery chargers and the controller. I know what your thinking...how am I going to get all that to fit inside the cargo cache. You'll have to wait and see.

I drilled a hole for the wires and installed a rubber grommet to make it look professional. As you can see from the pictures, the bike looks very clean with the wires (now), controller and batteries (later) tucked inside the cargo cache. How many pictures have you seen of e-bikes with the controller zip tied to some part of the bicycle frame, wires running everywhere and just general chaos with the installation of the kit? Plenty, just like me. Well, having all the e-bike components inside the cargo cache eliminates all that mess or at least keeps it inside and doesn't spoil the looks of the bicycle. Also, all the major components are now waterproof! The only parts of the kit exposed to water are the wires and hub. I may have to use some wax on the thumb throttle where gaps left for movement may expose the unit to water. Please share your experiences if you use a thumb throttle and how you made it waterproof.

I plan on eventually installing my version of a cargo cache which will be made of a stronger material and just as light as the one in the pictures below.

The wires are left loose for now but I'll use a wire management system at the end of the install to tidy everything up.

Here's today's pictures:



Stay tuned...more to come.

EBikeFL 

Well, I'll be taking my first ride tomorrow. I know what your thinking..."finally".

The PAS kicks in very quickly and I'm not sure how much power it triggers to the motor but my tests with the bicycle on the stand were impressive. If there's more power to be unleashed once I use the thumb throttle; I'm sure I'll end up in the middle of some tree.

The free wheel sticks on occasion so I've set the gearing to the hardest gear perhaps a few road miles will solve the problem. I'll talk to Papamotors about it as well as the rear disk wheel being slightly bent. I really don't want to take the rear end apart after all the work I've done on it.

I did not modify any of the lengths of the wires from all the components and they take up one corner of the cargo cache making it difficult to carry two chargers. I still should be able to get two batteries in and one charger. The metal feet on both the controller and charger make it difficult to squeeze everything into the cargo cache. I may end up putting the dremel to them.

I've used velcro in certain key areas of the cargo cache and even on the roof. This allows me to store anything anywhere I can find room.

I still have to fabricate a piece or two to hold the rear turn signal light. I also want to install the clip that comes with a standard GoPro on the back of the cargo cache and have the camera record vehicles coming up behind me. I'll have proof if someone gets closer than the legal three feet and causes me to have an accident. I'm sure many of you saw the recent cyclists in England I believe it was, that got hit by a car. Luckily the rear cyclist had a camera recording and the police were able to get the tag number.

I used a clay (white slab in the pictures below) that hardens into a stiff rubber once it has been heated to 275 degrees Fahrenheit as the covering over the cargo cache bolts seen in earlier pictures. I used epoxy to attach the rubber to the cargo cache but by doing so the rack and cargo cache are now one unit. There's no way to separate them. The rubber gives a nice cushion to the battery and a flat surface for the controller.

Here's today's pictures:



The seat post that I had to order worked great for the seat Pitlock. In fact, you can skip ordering the collar from Pitlock and order it from Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ls_o05_s00_i00).

I will start sharing videos as soon as I work out any last bugs in the installation.

Stay tuned...more to come!

Beesley

Any updates there buddy? I've been following this thread. Really interested to see how it turned out!!

dhoward

I purchased a kit from Papa Motors. The only problem I had was that it was advertised to go 34 mph, but was governed at 20 MPH. I contact them and was told to remove an electronic piece attached to the controller. It now goes 32 mph. The difference is probably in my tire size, translating to the speedometer. Close enough for me.


I put the governor back on and have a manual switch under the seat, where I can flip it on and off at will. I use the 20 mph mode when riding in traffic and want to pedal and use the faster mode when riding in less congested areas.

Very pleased with the kit. Have been riding a 4 stroke gas powered bike for the last 5 years, but the performance of this bike is so much better, that I see no reason to go back.

EBikeFL 

You keep me on my toes, Beesley.
The kit has been preforming great. I get plenty of attention while riding. I've had a few police officers notice me but none (knocking on wood) have stopped me yet. The PAS kicks in very quickly and I don't use the thumb throttle once the bicycle is moving, I just pedal. This is probably why the police have stayed away because I'm constantly pedaling. Of course, I feel no resistance on the pedals...I do it to keep the motor turning but everyone looking at me thinks I'm moving due to my pedaling.

My top speed has been around 30-31 mph...not the 34 mph advertised. Of course, I've changed the stock tires to street tires and my diameter setting on the cycle analyst is probably off. I have an app for my phone that will confirm the exact speed.

The rear wheel inner tube that came with the kit burst when I inflated the rear tire to 60 psi. I replaced it with a Sunlite Thorn Resistant inner tube and Papamotor reimbursed me. I also have Mr. Tuffy tire liners on. So far, I haven't had anymore flats.

Papamotor has been great so far. They have reimbursed me for any parts I've had problems with and even sent me a high tech twist throttle to use.

I've noticed the inside of the cargo cache getting scratched due to the battery charger moving around during my trips. I've got a sheet of rubber which I plan to line the sides of the cargo cache to prevent further abrasion.

I've got plenty of video but I have to find time to do some basic editing before I post them for everyone.

I also got caught in one major rain storm so far and the kit performed without any problems. The cargo cache also kept everything (battery, controller, etc.) nice and dry. The controller is waterproof but keeping it inside the cargo cache I don't have to worry about testing that feature. I do need to increase the air getting into the cargo cache, the controller gets very hot on my 15 mile one way commutes.

I haven't used my car in three weeks now.

I have got a few items on order: one will assist me in increasing the top speed without adjusting the motor or the controller (any guesses on how I will do that?), and another to increase my grocery carrying capacity.

I'll have some pictures towards the end of the week for everyone...maybe a video or two as well.

Stay tuned...more to come.

EBikeFL 

How long have you been using the kit, dhoward? Front or rear wheel setup? What model of bike did you install it on? How do you have the battery stored on the bicycle? Would you post some pictures of your setup for us, please.

dhoward

Have been using the kit for about a month now. I put fenders on, to keep water away, and it has worked very well. Rode it in a heavy rainstorm and it only got a bit of road spray. Also plan to move the controller up into the milk crate and wrap the wiring in waterproof tape instead of using the plastic bag.

In the past, have had the storage rack break while carrying a load, so this one is tied onto the seat for support.

EBikeFL 

[QUOTE=dhoward;14339865]Have been using the kit for about a month now. I put fenders on, to keep water away, and it has worked very well. Rode it in a heavy rainstorm and it only got a bit of road spray. Also plan to move the controller up into the milk crate and wrap the wiring in waterproof tape instead of using the plastic bag.

In the past, have had the storage rack break while carrying a load, so this one is tied onto the seat for support.
/QUOTE]

Very nice. How's the dual suspension working out? Did you have to set both shocks to their stiffest settings? What tires are you running (width)?

I'm sure you used Papamotors waterproof battery bag in the rain, right?

Do you have the capability of using a rear rack attached on both sides of the rear fork like mine?

If you could use two Ping 48v 15Ah batteries, would you?

EBikeFL 

Here's my first video uploaded to YouTube: https://youtu.be/w9Lm-uOkhRM

Choose the 720p video setting.

The rear bike rack light holder snapped on me so I'll be using a different point of attachment for my rear turn signals in the future.

Stay tuned...more to come.

dhoward

The dual suspension is great. Hardly feel the bumps. The tension settings are set midway, so I get a real smooth ride.

Tires are 26X2.00 with a street tread.

I do have the Papamotors battery bag, and it is perfict for the application. Fits well into the storage crate. The Anderson Power Pole Connectors wore out already. Probably not designed to remove daily, so I replaced them with regular 110 Volt extension cord ends. Easy to plug and unplug. Used ends with the ground plug, to keep from accidently switching polarity.

The rear suspension complicates the possibility using a rack, supported by the rear forks. Too much movement. Stuck with using the seat post mount.

I have now found the distance range to my battery power. Running full throttle, using minimum pedaling, I get about 21 miles per charge. My work commute is 10 miles round trip, so this is adequate for my current needs. We'll see how well the LiFePO4 battery performs as it ages. If it continues to perform well, I wouldn't need a second battery, but if not, then I would be open to trying two. From the reputation, it sounds like the Ping is top of the line, and my first option.

EBikeFL 

Dhoward, from your pictures it doesn't look like you have the PAS magnet attached. Is this correct? If so, you must have to constantly use the thumb throttle.

powell

watched your video.
Thank you for not blanketing these motor noise with music background.
It is funny , it sounds like electric locomotive or troyley bus.
I could not live with that constant annoying noise , no way.
Beauty of ebike should be complete silence.
WHERE I bike every bicycle path has sign "no motorized vehicles on pathway"
I would have been detected from 20-30 meters away with such noise.
My ebikes are completely silent.

EBikeFL 

The noise is loudest only when I start off from 0 mph. At speed, you can't hear anything...in fact, the noise of the wind rushing past my ears is the only thing I hear. The camera is located right above the hub motor and that's why you hear it. The majority of people are more astonished with the speed of my e-bike than the noise. This was obvious today when a pedestrian on the other side of the street did a complete 180 with their mouth open as he watched me go by. A few minutes later a minivan slowed down in the next lane over and looked on in bewilderment. I had a Porsche stop three feet away from me at the stop light and the driver didn't realize I was on an e-bike...they thought I was using human power to attain that speed. I have the video of the whole encounter...I'll try and post it soon for you.

Stay tuned...more to come.

EBikeFL 

The Porsche encounter could not be uploaded. The video file is too big to edit with my video software. YouTube's software didn't work either.

I have installed the item I mentioned earlier that would increase my speed. I have included a picture of my e-bike with the modification.



I also had a flat on the rear tire and am trying out various road tires other than my current favorite the Kenda K838. It looks like a roof staple.



The Hemisphere Armadillo Tire I used for a few miles so far is a bit stiff and feels like I'm riding on an ice skate blade. The LBS that I purchased it from didn't seem to keep it from getting damaged while in their storage or there's a manufacturing defect; either way, I think the tire is out of round. However, by the end of the week I will have the Schwalbe Marathon Supreme HS 382 Touring Road Bike Tire on and from the reviews I'm hoping that it will exceed my expectations.

Stay tuned...more to come.

spirit733t

hi there, I am also really interested in getting the papamotor 1000 watt 48 v front direct drive motor, can you tell me what do you think of the TREK 7.2 FX hybrid bike, it has a steel fork.. is this strong enough for the front hub motor?

https://www.worcestercyclecentre.com/...emart&Itemid=7

also what is your bike and what materials is it made from?

how would you describe the installation process of your bike? was it easy, medium or difficult?

would you recommend the papa motor kit to others?

EBikeFL 

Hello, spirit733t. Welcome to bikeforums.net.

I had an older model Trek and loved it. It was very strong. However, the model you mentioned does not have disk brakes and you'll probably want disk brakes if you go with the 48v 1000w Papamotors kit. I plan on upgrading my brakes to hydraulic brakes sometime in the near future because my mechanical disk breaks are at their limits with the 48v 1000w kit.

The Trek 7.2 FX is nice but you could get the bike I used for the Papamotors conversion for less. My bike is a 2012 Kona Lanai. You can see various parts of it in this build thread. The only other bike that I would like to put an e-bike kit on is the 2012 Kona Minute (https://www.konaworld.com/asphalt_sim...content=minute). It has the tire fenders and a very sturdy rear rack and rear fork. It sells for under $1000 at the majority of online bike shops I've searched. Of course, there are other members on this forum who have different model/manufacture bikes that work just as good. If you go with the Kona Lanai you'll be able to use my build instructions without any modifications.

My 2012 Kona Lanai stock build and frame specs can be found here: https://www.konaworld.com/mtb_trail_a...ontent=lanai#2

The installation of the Papamotors kit was relatively easy. I had to make modifications to the PAS magnetic ring which you should be able to get Papamotors to send you the correct size for your bike's bottom bracket. I used a dremel to widen the ring for my Kona. I'm currently working with Papamotors to get the rear brake bracket that comes with their rear wheel kit shortened. I sent them an email today so I hope their engineers can make the necessary modifications.

I would certainly recommend the Papamotors kits to anyone interested in building an e-bike. They have been a great company to work with so far. Their customer service is fantastic.

I would skip getting some of their parts that come with their kits and I think I've detailed those parts in this build thread at some point. Basically, you just need their hub motor, rim, and electronics/wiring. The Ping battery that comes with the kit is fantastic and you couldn't do better. I would stick with the thumb throttle if you also use the PAS from the kit. I pedal to keep the motor at full throttle and confuse the pedestrian/vehicle traffic on the streets. My whole setup is so stealthy that you wouldn't recognize the bike as being an e-bike apart from the speeds I can hit. This might be more difficult if you go with the front wheel hub motor. The weight distribution may be a bit better with the front wheel setup though. There's another member who installed the Papamotors kit on the front wheel and you can see his pictures in this thread as well.

I'd go for it. You'll use your car a whole lot less. You may also want to use the Cycle Analyst to gradually increase the speed of the kit. The 48v 1000w setup can be frightening if your not used to traveling on a bicycle that fast. I've taken pictures at just about every point of my buildup and posted them as part of this thread. If there's any particular point your not to sure about; don't hesitate to ask me. The other members on this forum are very knowledgeable as well. Like you, I'm very new to this whole e-bike revolution.

Good luck and keep us all informed on your progress.

Stay tuned...more to come.

spirit733t

hi there, thanks for the great advice, im mainly wanting to use the bike to commute to work, this is around 6 miles each way..

I am struggling to find a decent bike to use.. I have emailed papamotors on different bikes for their advice, and they did 'nt recommend a single one of my suggestions.. they felt the trek 7.2 FX has a weak frame..

then I thought I found a really good but second hand bike, a voodoo boker, but they said that their motors dont work with hydraulic disk brakes..

could you please recommend me a good bike with a strong frame for a maximum budget of around £600.00 (900.00 $)
I would like it to be able to take full mudguard fenders and rack and also maybe front suspension..

the trek 7.2 has steel forks so I thought that would be strong enough for he front motor? what is your opinion on this?

some other questions? do i have to mount the PAS, what happens if I don't do this, also do I have to use their brakes that they supply? again what happens if I do not do his, I think their brakes cut the motor off from any power.. but I thought that was what the throttle was for, that is when you release the throttle, all power goes? am I wrong here?

and finally my last question is that most bikes these days come with more than a 6 speed rear free-wheel thing, perhaps like 7,8 or maybe more, the papa motor rear wheel can only take a 6 speed free-wheel? is this a big issue for bikes that have more than that gear system.. can the derailleur be adjusted so that only the 6 free-wheels systems is accessed?

thanks again for your help and im really looking forward to getting his project going...