Erzulis Boat 

This is my Eroica wheel. The driveside race/balls/cone were all corroded in antiquity, and no matter what, I couldn't dial out the clunk-clunk of a once overtightened system (dimples in the cone).

I found a new cone in my stash, and grabbed new balls but the inner race on this hub isn't perfect. It doesn't have any dimples, but the surface was corroded. The pic isn't so hot, but you get the idea.

Question- I have a donor hub race, but it will disable an otherwise good hub in my stash. Let's say I run the new balls/cone but keep this inner race there, will it damage the good stuff? All my vintage components have been 100% serviceable, and I discard anything bad, but I need to use this wheel. I can dry build it, and see if it feels ok, but this is less than ideal of course. If I can get away with it and not deadline another hub, that would be acceptable.

Any suggestions?

ironwood

Build a new wheel with the good hub. If the rim is good use it, those spokes look a little old.

non-fixie 

Those spokes have been a little too close to a chain at some point. Might not be a problem, but of the two times I had spokes break on me, once was because of exactly this phenomenon. Such a wheel would not be my first choice for a ride with lots of uphill challenges. Slightly corroded hub races are much less of a problem under those circumstances.

CliffordK

I've been puzzled why bearing cups are rarely damaged, and cones can be mangled quickly.

I think it has to do with the cones sitting in one orientation (until the wheel is next removed), and the cups going in a circle, always exposing some different spot to any building damage.

So, the impacts to the cones always occur in the same place, but distributed around the race.

Plus, of course, size.

That is an interesting thought, however.

If I thought I could easily get a race out intact, then I would be tempted to polish it, then re-insert it.

randyjawa 

Very bad idea unless you want to keep doing the job over and over. Damaged balls, or cones or cups will cause damage to the system and do so in relatively short order. The only time I would do such a thing would be if I were in a pinch and had to get the bike up and running right away. Otherwise, do the job correctly and you will be thankful you did.

Classtime 

I have heard/read that the balls are softer than the cones which are softer than the races so they are replaced in that order and if done in time, will prevent ruining the harder to replace pieces. If what I heard/read is true, the balls running in the damage races could cause some damage to the balls but the cones should be safe. (Balls are cheap but I never have any around.)

cannonride15

@erzulis-boat, you might try some valve lapping compound with an old set of balls and cone on an axle. Apply compound to cup and rotate back and forth with balls and cone in place (some have suggested chucking in a drill). Its worked for me!

SurferRosa

The race looks bad, but not terrible. It's really hard to tell how bad it is from this one pic (or any pic).

If it were one ride to prepare for, I would choose another bike. If I didn't have another bike and not the time to correct the problem, I would indeed use the new cone and balls in this hub. Go on a one-mile test ride. I'd probably leave the adjustment on the loose side of things, but within tolerance. It might be difficult to find a perfect, temporary adjustment. The skewer can be used to tighten the hub even more, but this trick is easier on front wheels where less skewer force is needed to keep the wheel in the frame.

I don't know how to replace races. So, for a long-term solution, given the spokes and rim are good, I would look for a replacement hub, preferably the same or similar model. Simply relace and rebuild.

canklecat

I was pondering exactly the same thing the other day. I've never seen a damaged race on my bikes' wheels, but have seen many pitted cones. Too often factory produced wheels intended for entry and mid level bikes seem to be hastily assembled, with the cones badly overtightened. Every used bike I've purchased that appeared to have the original wheels, and no signs of interim maintenance by owners, had the same problem -- pitted cones, crunchy feeling hubs that were badly overtightened.

My theory is the race cups are both hardened and resilient from the stamping/forming process. The cones are probably only surface heat treated, leaving a brittle outer layer over a more ductile core. And the ball bearings seem to be much tougher than the cones. Even after hundreds of miles on a pitted cone I've never seen a ball bearing that was obviously out of round.

So far I've mostly reused the same components, only replacing the ball bearings and grease, then very carefully tightening the cones until there's no perceptible slop but the hub spins freely without palpable crunching or gritty feeling. So far, so good. But it takes me two or three tries to get it right. In an assembly line setting for low to mid priced bikes, I doubt the assemblers had time to finesse the hubs. They probably cranked 'em tight and called it a day.

fietsbob

In Campag The GS hubs use a stamped race, the Record use a heat treated ground machined race..

Horse out of the Barn retrospective, but more frequent cleaning, greasing, and putting in all fresh balls will extend the wear life..




..

Erzulis Boat 

Thanks all. I did a trial build, and it still felt rough. The hub race was just too far gone. I replaced the hub race, and it's all perfect now.

I use a correct bearing race puller, and merely drift it out evenly. There is absolutely zero damage to the race. Campagnolo doesn't press them in very tight as to allow easy replacement. I use a heat gun and warm the hub shell. With a few strikes on the drift with a 3oz hammer, they pop right out.

Erzulis Boat 

Here are the tools. I use an aluminum rod (not pictured) to tap bearing puller out.

That's the old race next to the donor hub. It's just a heat treated cup. So simple and cool.

Erzulis Boat 

Thanks! Didn't know that tid-bit. Now the trick is to remember it.

CliffordK

I've seen plenty of badly damaged bearing balls. Almost like an outer shell is pealed off. But, an earlier inquiry indicated that a chrome ball is a chrome steel, not a chromed steel... I think.

I've got a batch of 440 stainless balls that I'm slowly working through. So far so good. Apparently slightly softer than the Chrome Steel versions, but they seem to be working without issues. Time to pull some apart for cleaning and inspection.

For vintage Campagnolo hubs, the "Record" hubs used a very small bearing race, while the other lower models used a much larger (heavier) race.

But, for Shimano hubs, I'm not convinced that they separate the races into levels, so the cheapest Shimano bearing races seem to be just as good as the most expensive ones.

On the other hand, Shimano does make cheap vs expensive cones.

The cheapest Shimano cones are black and bumpy on the outside. I've polished them, but I've wondered, like you, if they have a fine surface hardening under all that bumpiness, and polishing them actually makes them worse by getting rid of the surface hardening.

Is it possible one also realizes work hardening with the races?

I need to get (or make) some tools to test metal hardness.

fietsbob

BITD the Record Races could be removed and replaced, Too