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The Water Cooler, Scuttlebutt, Chit Chat Thread

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The Water Cooler, Scuttlebutt, Chit Chat Thread

Old 09-08-17, 06:59 AM
  #1101  
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Originally Posted by aaronmcd
New p2m crankset came today!! Debating installing it right away or waiting 2 weeks for racing to finish before messing with my bike fit. There is a hill in Saturdays race so it might feel weird on the shorter cranks but OTOH I'm so excited to try them out!

Noticed my preferred RPM in the last crit was 104-108, not sure if Ill suddenly start doing 115 or just be cool with a few percent more force.
How big of a difference are you talking?

Chances are, you won't really notice much change. I go from road bike (172.5) to track bike (167.5) to mtb (175) all the time. I do all my track workouts on my road bike, so I am doing efforts at 120+ rpm on the longer crank arms. If you were to swap any of those arms across the bikes, I doubt I would notice.

(Well, I might notice the 172.5 or 175 on the track bike, but that is because I'd be smacking my foot on the track with some frequency.)

Also, even with the shorter arms, you probably won't see much change in your cadence. We get used to moving our legs at a certain speed, and your muscles will continue moving at that speed. You may see slightly higher power, because the shorter arms require more force as you lose some leverage, but we're only talking a couple of watts. The shorter arms also will allow you to get a bit lower on the bike.

There's a pretty good discussion on crank arm length and rpm/foot speed/power in the track forum: https://www.bikeforums.net/track-cycl...ng-200s-2.html According to one analysis, to maintain the same foot speed, going from 175 to 165 would require an increase of 7 rpm.

Last edited by topflightpro; 09-08-17 at 07:06 AM.
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Old 09-08-17, 08:07 AM
  #1102  
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n=1 here, but I did have an issue when I tried going shorter. I had a coach who wanted me to switch from 172.5 to 170 for a quicker spin with my shorter legs (I'm 5'7"). On the flats it was great and felt really comfortable. As soon as I started climbing, I struggled significantly. I thought it was in my head because it's only a 2.5mm change but when went back to 172.5 everything was back to my normal level of suckage but not more. I tried to switch 3 times and the same result each time.
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Old 09-08-17, 02:29 PM
  #1103  
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Originally Posted by ntnyln
n=1 here, but I did have an issue when I tried going shorter. I had a coach who wanted me to switch from 172.5 to 170 for a quicker spin with my shorter legs (I'm 5'7"). On the flats it was great and felt really comfortable. As soon as I started climbing, I struggled significantly. I thought it was in my head because it's only a 2.5mm change but when went back to 172.5 everything was back to my normal level of suckage but not more. I tried to switch 3 times and the same result each time.
did you adjust the saddle height?
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Old 09-08-17, 03:06 PM
  #1104  
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Originally Posted by ntnyln
n=1 here, but I did have an issue when I tried going shorter. I had a coach who wanted me to switch from 172.5 to 170 for a quicker spin with my shorter legs (I'm 5'7"). On the flats it was great and felt really comfortable. As soon as I started climbing, I struggled significantly. I thought it was in my head because it's only a 2.5mm change but when went back to 172.5 everything was back to my normal level of suckage but not more. I tried to switch 3 times and the same result each time.
I tried 3 different seasons, 2008-2011-2016 to go to 170mm from 175mm (I'm 5'7" max and have very short legs). Each time I tried the shorter cranks for at least a few months, typically starting in October the year before. The shorter cranks felt fine "in testing" (mainly trainer) but in races I always felt horrible. When I moved to 175mm I had immediate and noticeable improvements in my results. For me it might be a tendency to spin a bit less (105 rpm seems good for 175mm, about 110 rpm for 170mm), my preference for short/sharp efforts, etc.

Once thing I learned when I rode a tandem in a group is that apparently I make very sharp, short sort of "pedal stroke punches" to close up a minor gap. Apparently I do this regularly when adjusting the gap to the next rider. On a single bike, with just me, I was doing it without being aware of it. On the tandem, with about 380 lbs total weight, I was surprised to find that suddenly I stamped the pedal hard (and it didn't move). When I say "surprise" I mean I thought my leg cramped or something because I didn't think I commanded my leg to do this "stamp". I was trying to figure out what I was doing, the stamp was so automatic. Within a few minutes I'd realized that the stamp was to close gaps, but on the tandem it took maybe 3-5 pedal strokes, not a quarter revolution "punch". I exploded about 10 minutes later, unable to sustain the repeated massive efforts I felt compelled to do to stay on wheels.

So anyway I'm on 175s and fine on them. Primarily a sprinter, 100% crits, I pedal through corners fine (the first few digs shave a bunch of plastic off the pedals and then I'm good), and the sprints for me are better with the long cranks than the short ones, both in testing and in racing.

I "feel" more aero on the 170s because I can raise my saddle 5mm and therefore increase drop by 5mm. My back feels a bit better. Other than that benefit, nada with the 170s. With the 175s my legs don't come up as far so I can't drop the bars the extra 5mm because I'm too fat.
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Old 09-08-17, 03:07 PM
  #1105  
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Originally Posted by gsteinb
did you adjust the saddle height?
Totally off this topic but remember when you and the Audi guy were off the back of the M45 race at Bethel? I think it was a March race in 2014. And after some discussion you both decided to get back to racing, chased back on, and whatever? Maybe you won, I don't remember.
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Old 09-08-17, 03:09 PM
  #1106  
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posted in the other thread. Don't recall it at all. but no way we went 30 seconds off the back. Just doesn't sound like something I'd do, especially at Bethel. Front back side...not many guys would beat me sprinting up that hill.
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Old 09-08-17, 03:12 PM
  #1107  
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At work I brought in some purple Carpe Diem Racing shirts (the 2014 ones) for a couple of the guys (I have about 30 left). Now it seems all of them want one. "I want to wear the shirt to car shows!" "Uh, Carpe Diem Racing is a bike racing thing." "That's okay, it says 'racing team' and no one will know it's a bike racing one."

haha.

I want to see where these shirts end up "in the wild".

I found two size Smalls. I'm saving them for Junior.
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Old 09-08-17, 03:14 PM
  #1108  
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I still wear mine
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Old 09-08-17, 03:17 PM
  #1109  
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Old 09-08-17, 03:30 PM
  #1110  
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Originally Posted by gsteinb
did you adjust the saddle height?
We made all of the adjustments and power would fall out the bottom when climbing each time. It's annoying when buying a bike because all 52's bikes come with 170's... It's one of the reasons I'm building my new one from a framset. That and I don't like the colorway on the compete bike, but that's another thread.
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Old 09-08-17, 07:32 PM
  #1111  
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Originally Posted by aaronmcd
New p2m crankset came today!! Debating installing it right away or waiting 2 weeks for racing to finish before messing with my bike fit. There is a hill in Saturdays race so it might feel weird on the shorter cranks but OTOH I'm so excited to try them out!

Noticed my preferred RPM in the last crit was 104-108, not sure if Ill suddenly start doing 115 or just be cool with a few percent more force.
Did you end up getting the Rotor one or the FSA one?
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Old 09-08-17, 07:57 PM
  #1112  
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Originally Posted by abhirama
Did you end up getting the Rotor one or the FSA one?
Rotor. So preeeetty. Can't wait to see how they feel but I'm gonna be smart and wait til after tomorrows race.
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Old 09-08-17, 08:56 PM
  #1113  
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Originally Posted by aaronmcd
Rotor. So preeeetty. Can't wait to see how they feel but I'm gonna be smart and wait til after tomorrows race.
Common there are like 5 people in your field, might as well.
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Old 09-09-17, 10:17 PM
  #1114  
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During my ride today I met up with a guy I've been meaning to ride with. When I rolled up to him I realized he wasn't wearing a helmet. First time in my cycling career I've actively ridden with someone with just a cycling cap on. He claimed he left his helmet in the car and his step son took the car to run some errands. I believe him but it was an interesting experience I thought I would share.

Although, he and I do share an opinion. If a helmet is the reason you decide to not get on your bike for a simple, flat, out and back ride. You should just get on your bike. Hmm. I very rarely ride without a helmet and never more than an about a mile. It's always so very... freeing.. to ride without one, but I don't think I'd ever be brave enough to go out for an intentional ride without. There have been a few time when I've been doing climbs on closed roads where I've just considered taking it off to let my head breathe. But I never have.

Don't want to create a huge debate here, just want to hear experience from some of the older guys that may have raced before helmets were mandatory.
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Old 09-09-17, 10:56 PM
  #1115  
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Originally Posted by Ttoc6
During my ride today I met up with a guy I've been meaning to ride with. When I rolled up to him I realized he wasn't wearing a helmet. First time in my cycling career I've actively ridden with someone with just a cycling cap on. He claimed he left his helmet in the car and his step son took the car to run some errands. I believe him but it was an interesting experience I thought I would share.

Although, he and I do share an opinion. If a helmet is the reason you decide to not get on your bike for a simple, flat, out and back ride. You should just get on your bike. Hmm. I very rarely ride without a helmet and never more than an about a mile. It's always so very... freeing.. to ride without one, but I don't think I'd ever be brave enough to go out for an intentional ride without. There have been a few time when I've been doing climbs on closed roads where I've just considered taking it off to let my head breathe. But I never have.

Don't want to create a huge debate here, just want to hear experience from some of the older guys that may have raced before helmets were mandatory.
I've taken my helmet off for climbs before. Also a ex pro around here regularly rides without one. But he should cuz he crashed without one a couple years ago. Didn't make him start apparently.
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Old 09-09-17, 11:28 PM
  #1116  
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Originally Posted by aaronmcd
I've taken my helmet off for climbs before. Also a ex pro around here regularly rides without one. But he should cuz he crashed without one a couple years ago. Didn't make him start apparently.
Reminds me of the Steve Tilford thing around this time last year (might have been closer to November). I just find it hard to justify. Mild inconvenience trumps outrageous odds. Then again, he had ridden for YEARS that way and that was only 1 incident.. Just so happens that 1 incident was major.
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Old 09-10-17, 04:38 AM
  #1117  
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Originally Posted by Ttoc6
During my ride today I met up with a guy I've been meaning to ride with. When I rolled up to him I realized he wasn't wearing a helmet. First time in my cycling career I've actively ridden with someone with just a cycling cap on. He claimed he left his helmet in the car and his step son took the car to run some errands. I believe him but it was an interesting experience I thought I would share.

Although, he and I do share an opinion. If a helmet is the reason you decide to not get on your bike for a simple, flat, out and back ride. You should just get on your bike. Hmm. I very rarely ride without a helmet and never more than an about a mile. It's always so very... freeing.. to ride without one, but I don't think I'd ever be brave enough to go out for an intentional ride without. There have been a few time when I've been doing climbs on closed roads where I've just considered taking it off to let my head breathe. But I never have.

Don't want to create a huge debate here, just want to hear experience from some of the older guys that may have raced before helmets were mandatory.

****IMPORTANT MODERATION NOTE*****

Helmet threads are a nonstarter on bicycle forums except for the specific Helmet thread in the advocacy and safety forum.

You can link to that here

https://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-s...hread-2-a.html


Hot button issue and helmet discussion are usually culled and moved there. I'll leave these few posts, but let's please move on. Thanks.
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Old 09-10-17, 06:55 AM
  #1118  
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Originally Posted by gsteinb
****IMPORTANT MODERATION NOTE*****

Helmet threads are a nonstarter on bicycle forums except for the specific Helmet thread in the advocacy and safety forum.

You can link to that here

https://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-s...hread-2-a.html


Hot button issue and helmet discussion are usually culled and moved there. I'll leave these few posts, but let's please move on. Thanks.
I apologize. Did it realize I was breaking a rule...

Here's the change of topic. How do y'all handle a bad night's sleep. I woke up at about 3 o'clock in the morning and could not get back to sleep. It sucked and I would like to hear (non drug) related suggestions.
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Old 09-10-17, 08:39 AM
  #1119  
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No worries about the rule, it's not part of the forum guidelines that you agreed to when you signed up - just an informal things that mod's pay attention to. I almost started commenting and proliferating discussion myself before gstein reminded me

As to the insomnia issue - I'm not sure as I'm usually a pretty good sleeper. There are others here that can help though.
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Old 09-10-17, 08:58 AM
  #1120  
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Alcohol considered a drug? This was the only use for fresh from the freezer Jagermeister I ever had. Maybe swishing a little brandy around in your mouth until your esophagus pulls it down is more your style.

Going to bed after a night of drinking is a recipe for unproductive rest. One nip off a bottle at 3 AM and back to bed 15 minutes after is medicinal treatment for someone who maintains a high level of physical and mental stress. Until it becomes habitual.
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Old 09-10-17, 10:20 AM
  #1121  
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Originally Posted by Ttoc6
I apologize. Did it realize I was breaking a rule...

Here's the change of topic. How do y'all handle a bad night's sleep. I woke up at about 3 o'clock in the morning and could not get back to sleep. It sucked and I would like to hear (non drug) related suggestions.


3am? Pretty close to normal wake up time. Get up. Coffee. Meditate. Train.
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Old 09-10-17, 10:38 AM
  #1122  
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He's a young guy who tries to get 10 hours a night. Doubt he is even off work and eating dinner by 5. Much less in bed.
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Old 09-10-17, 11:28 AM
  #1123  
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Originally Posted by miyata man
One nip off a bottle at 3 AM and back to bed 15 minutes after is medicinal treatment
not really

unless you call that treatment, "how to become an alcoholic"?
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Old 09-10-17, 11:36 AM
  #1124  
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Originally Posted by miyata man
Alcohol considered a drug? ...
It is on the WADA list (banned) for some sports in competition such as shooting, but is allowed for cycling.
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Old 09-10-17, 11:36 AM
  #1125  
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Oh yeah on the subject of sleep; I recently started using the "AutoSleep" app, it tracks your sleep over time, produces graphs/data.

It's kind of like TrainingPeaks for sleep. In my case it uses the Apple Watch to automatically track when I went to sleep, and how well I slept. (it can work without the watch, and probably works for Android too)

I feel like sleep is often overlooked as part of a training/racing regimen. I'm trying to get more serious about it.. trying to get 7 hours/night, pretty close to it. Except for when I have to get up at 4:30 to leave at 5 AM for one of those silly 8AM RRs around here.
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