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Newer Battery Powered bikes ? Thoughts

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Newer Battery Powered bikes ? Thoughts

Old 09-25-18, 04:35 AM
  #26  
Metieval
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Originally Posted by trailangel
Oh my, so much California hate. Just wait for the electric scooters........
that's on my list too! Super small storage space in trunk, Park where ever in town and go 15 mph! Oh yea!!
Oh are you not talking scooters like the razor scooter?
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Old 09-25-18, 09:23 AM
  #27  
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Should have made it clear. Electric Razor:
https://www.li.me/electric-scooter
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Old 09-25-18, 09:28 AM
  #28  
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yeah those, but I don't want to rent, I want to own one.
It would be nifty and better than walking!
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Old 09-25-18, 11:49 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by trailangel
Should have made it clear. Electric Razor:
https://www.li.me/electric-scooter
Do those not get stuck on imperfections in the sidewalk like normal Razor scooters?

Razor scooters are great...until there is a bump in the pavement and a kid goes flying. I have no idea why kids scooters moved away from inflatable tires.

edit- these were sweet. inflatable tires and hand brakes! Could roll over bad sidewalk.

Last edited by mstateglfr; 09-25-18 at 11:56 AM.
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Old 09-25-18, 12:49 PM
  #30  
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I have a road bike. I used to commute to work on a city bike. It was heavy and with my panniers it was even heavier. I would have appreciated a little pedal assist when riding that heavy bicycle to work. I wouldn't have been quite as sweaty when arriving at the office. I never rode it on group rides. I don't understand why you elites worry so much about what other people ride.
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Old 09-25-18, 12:56 PM
  #31  
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You can buy a 28 mph scooter for under $1k:
https://www.amazon.com/Mercane-Widew...language=en_US
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Old 09-25-18, 02:40 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by gtragitt
I have a road bike. I used to commute to work on a city bike. It was heavy and with my panniers it was even heavier. I would have appreciated a little pedal assist when riding that heavy bicycle to work. I wouldn't have been quite as sweaty when arriving at the office. I never rode it on group rides. I don't understand why you elites worry so much about what other people ride.
Again- pedal assist for transportation is totally different from pedal assist for competitive riding(group, race, etc) Within this thread and others, there is a continued clarification between recreation(transport included) and competition.
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Old 09-25-18, 03:05 PM
  #33  
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[MENTION=115740]mstateglfr I am perplexed that group riding is considered competitive. I considered group rides as social events. If the rides are timed, I understand that pedal assist is not appreciated. If a couple of friends want to ride together with different physical capabilities they can all ride together with varying amounts of pedal assist. What difference does it make to you if these people enjoy riding together as part of a group ride? Who are you to dictate what people can ride? When I rode in groups the most important aspect was ensuring safety. I didn't get upset if I saw somebody on a mountain bike, a trike or a recumbent.
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Old 09-25-18, 03:19 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by gtragitt
[MENTION=115740]mstateglfr I am perplexed that group riding is considered competitive. I considered group rides as social events. If the rides are timed, I understand that pedal assist is not appreciated. If a couple of friends want to ride together with different physical capabilities they can all ride together with varying amounts of pedal assist. What difference does it make to you if these people enjoy riding together as part of a group ride? Who are you to dictate what people can ride? When I rode in groups the most important aspect was ensuring safety. I didn't get upset if I saw somebody on a mountain bike, a trike or a recumbent.
Why would the French club care if people wanted to come and speak only German and eat schnitzel and drink Liebfraumilch?

There's a qualitative difference between motorized and non motorized vehicles that doesnt cut between, say, mountain bikes and road bikes..
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Old 09-25-18, 04:10 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
Again- pedal assist for transportation is totally different from pedal assist for competitive riding(group, race, etc) Within this thread and others, there is a continued clarification between recreation(transport included) and competition.
Huh?
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Old 09-25-18, 05:15 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Spoonrobot
Some group rides are casual no drop non-competitive. Some are casual competitive no drop. Some are competitive drop. Some are race simulations.

I do all kinds and with the exception of the first, ebikes are not welcome as each individual rider is coming to test their physical condition, strengthen themselves or have fun in a fair, competitive environment.

Ebikes destroy that environment and are not welcome - despite any excuses people may come up with.
You wouldn't have to worry because anybody with an ebike wouldn't want to ride with you. You seem to have no clue that you can get a great workout with pedal assist. Many bicycle clubs have different groups; so, the hammerheads can go impress themselves.
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Old 09-25-18, 05:21 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by trailangel
Huh?
point was that many in this thread view pedal assist as perfectly fine for commuting and recreational riding.
but view pedal assist as not fine for competitive riding(group rides, races, etc).
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Old 09-25-18, 05:30 PM
  #38  
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I think pedal assist is fine. It's the bikes with throttle that I think should not be allow. Inexperienced riders going too fast for their skillset.
Pedal assist to 20mph is ok, and then if you want to go faster you can pedal it like a bike with no power. The ones that modify to go faster than 20mph with pedal assist will find out quickly they run out of battery FAST.
Bike with throttle to 28 mph.... scary. On a gravel road..... somebody is going to eat it.
Also, comes a point when too much weight (motor and battery)makes the bike ride dead.

Last edited by trailangel; 09-25-18 at 05:33 PM.
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Old 09-25-18, 05:54 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by trailangel
I think pedal assist is fine. It's the bikes with throttle that I think should not be allow. Inexperienced riders going too fast for their skillset.
Pedal assist to 20mph is ok, and then if you want to go faster you can pedal it like a bike with no power. The ones that modify to go faster than 20mph with pedal assist will find out quickly they run out of battery FAST.
Bike with throttle to 28 mph.... scary. On a gravel road..... somebody is going to eat it.
Also, comes a point when too much weight (motor and battery)makes the bike ride dead.
Thanks for a very sensible perspective.
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Old 09-25-18, 07:47 PM
  #40  
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electric road makes sense to me

urban electric makes sense to me.

but when it comes to gravel, Gas makes more sense to me than electric. I suppose it all comes down to what 1 person wants or needs.

If I am going to drop $5,000 on an electric bike, I'd rather drop $5,000 on a Honda CRF250L

In the end, it doesn't really matter what 2 wheels I am riding, Or what 2 wheels you are riding, I am acknowledging and waving.
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Old 09-26-18, 08:19 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Metieval
....In the end, it doesn't really matter what 2 wheels I am riding, Or what 2 wheels you are riding, I am acknowledging and waving.
I will happily wave at e-bikers doing their own ride.
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Old 09-26-18, 08:43 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by gtragitt
[MENTION=115740]mstateglfr I am perplexed that group riding is considered competitive. I considered group rides as social events. If the rides are timed, I understand that pedal assist is not appreciated. If a couple of friends want to ride together with different physical capabilities they can all ride together with varying amounts of pedal assist. What difference does it make to you if these people enjoy riding together as part of a group ride? Who are you to dictate what people can ride? When I rode in groups the most important aspect was ensuring safety. I didn't get upset if I saw somebody on a mountain bike, a trike or a recumbent.
Group rides can be social and slow or fast and competitive. They can be anywhere between too. I was speaking of ones which arent slow and social.
Even regroup no drop rides can be competitive. People just then wait at the regroup.

As for who am I to decide- well i personally couldnt care and am admittedly nobody to decide due to my riding circumstances. I ride half the year with teens as we train for RAGBRAI. All their bikes are self powered. We do have 1 adult mentor who rides pedal assist bikes, but she is 70 and has had her knees and a hip replaced. Besides that, I ride with family or alone. Typically alone. I dont do group rides with adults so I am not one to decide. My point is that it shouldnt be(and typically isnt) OK to have pedal assist bikes in group rides that are competitive since it creates an inherent advantage.

A couple friends riding together is not a group ride in the way I meant. Group rides are, to me, organized and open for many- so run by a bike shop, bike club, fitness center, etc.
Yes of course if 3 friends want to ride and 1 has a pedal assist bike, then that is fine. Good lord, i didnt think that would need to be specified.
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Old 09-26-18, 09:12 AM
  #43  
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I have ridden many group rides with a mixture of bicycles including trikes, tandems, recumbents, road bikes and mountain bikes. A mountain bike can't compete with a road bike on flat terrain. A road bike can't compete with a tandem on flat terrain. A pedal assist bike can not compete against a light road bike on flat terrain with a fast rider. A pedal assist bike loses assist at 20 mph. A strong road bike rider will be faster than 20 mph. My point is that if you ride with various types of bikes, a pedal assist bike is just another variety. Those on road bikes can compete with one another if competition is what drives them. I rode group rides for social interaction. I often would start with the A riders and after a while drop back and ride with slower riders. I would ride with them until I wanted to ride a little faster and often ended up riding by myself. I don't have a pedal assist bike, but I am thinking of retrofitting a mid drive kit to my Trek. I don't think anybody should tell me when and where I can ride it. If I wanted to compete I would be on my road bike. At 69 years of age competition is irrelevant to me. I understand that it drives some people and they can compete with others who ride the same type of bicycles.
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Old 09-26-18, 09:23 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by gtragitt
...You wouldn't have to worry because anybody with an ebike wouldn't want to ride with you...
Oh, boy is THAT feeling mutual! (as far as I'm concerned.)

Last edited by 5teve; 09-26-18 at 09:27 AM.
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Old 09-26-18, 10:04 AM
  #45  
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When I'm old and slow I'll just ride my regular bike with other slow people instead of my motorized bike with fast people. Problem solved.
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Old 09-26-18, 10:41 AM
  #46  
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The competitive angle on a group ride with one riding an ebike makes me chuckle. Someone on an ebike can maintain the same speed safely as others on a group ride and if they can, what is the problem? Is it an ego thing? Why should anybody care if an ebike rider has an advantage if it's not a race with actual numbers pinned?

I don't even really like ebikes, but some of the arguments against them like "they're cheating" or "man up and ride regular-like like I do" or "this group is for only regular bikes" seem lame. If someone shows up on a bike and can't ride properly in a group, and that includes maintaining the group's speed, than they need to be schooled on what they are doing wrong, but that isn't limited to the ebike riders. Hell, every road ride I've been in had at least one knucklehead who isn't doing it right. But, I tell you, it's usually those who look at a group ride as their moment to prove how awesome they are and cat 6 race everybody who screws the group up.
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Old 09-26-18, 11:24 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by RJM
Why should anybody care if an ebike rider has an advantage if it's not a race with actual numbers pinned?
Numbers don't need to be pinned in order for an activity to be competitive. We like making each other hurt and pushing each other to respond. There's a social dynamic to it, which is broken when someone flips on a motor.
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Old 09-26-18, 11:50 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by HTupolev
Numbers don't need to be pinned in order for an activity to be competitive. We like making each other hurt and pushing each other to respond. There's a social dynamic to it, which is broken when someone flips on a motor.
How is the social dynamic broken when someone shows up with an ebike provided they don't dictate the speed of the group? Serious question.

For instance. Let's say a regular to the "competitive" group ride (let's call him Joe) has some sort of medical issue... say a heart issue that requires him to maintain a lower heart rate than he normally does. By all accounts he has the skill, training, knowhow to ride in the group and wants to continue to do it since all his buddies are in the group too and it has been a regular part of his life for years. He buys an ebike that allows him to ride with that group and maintain his doctor ordered restrictions. Now let's say you have been part of that group for years and now here comes Joe with his new ebike and rides with you. Are you telling me you are going to go home grumpy and grumbling about "cheating" because Joe rides his regular group ride with an ebike? That Joe somehow is destroying the social dynamic of that group?

I've been on a lot of group rides and never thought once about how some dude on a faster bike is cheating and therefore it ruined my ride or somehow changed the "value" of the ride to me. I frankly just don't get how it would.
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Old 09-26-18, 11:54 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by dgodave
When I'm old and slow I'll just ride my regular bike with other slow people instead of my motorized bike with fast people. Problem solved.
Thank you! Right there with you...actually, I'm already pretty old and slow so I might be right there ahead of you!
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Old 09-26-18, 12:10 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Spoonrobot
Oh good lord

I don't believe you've ever ridden a competitive group ride. Your posts read like live action role playing used as an attempt bolster your background and strengthen your arguments. It's not working. Joe is absolutely going to destroy the social dynamic of the group because people do not want to get out-ridden by someone who a) has a health issue and b) is using an electronic crutch.

I'd have no problem telling Joe to have fun on his ebike ride with other ebikers and we'll be more than happy to meet him at the coffee stop or afterwards for post-ride tacos. I'd also tell Joe learning to age gracefully is an important part of being a mature adult. Sometimes one stops being able to do the things one love and how one deals with that is important.
You are wrong, buddy.

Actually "Joe" is a rider I know in a situation that is precisely like I described who rides our group rides. Nobody cares that Joe rides an ebike....

and seriously, if you do the problem is with yourself and not Joe's ebike riding. It's a good thing you aren't the sanctioning body in charge of group rides.

enjoy your cat 6 racing. lol

Last edited by RJM; 09-26-18 at 12:14 PM.
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