Drivers Should Look Left Before Opening Door
#26
Cycle Year Round
#27
☢
Actually, there were similar concerns (and still are) during the transition from manual crank windows to power windows, etc.: How would people get out if the car became waterlogged?
That proved to be a greater concern theoretical than in reality. In any event, it shouldn't prove to great an engineering solution to include a manual override for such an instant. What do you think?
That proved to be a greater concern theoretical than in reality. In any event, it shouldn't prove to great an engineering solution to include a manual override for such an instant. What do you think?
#28
What happened?
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Around here somewhere
Posts: 7,927
Bikes: 3 Rollfasts, 3 Schwinns, a Shelby and a Higgins Flightliner in a pear tree!
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1835 Post(s)
Liked 292 Times
in
255 Posts
Please reread the order and content of my post. There was no snark in Post #3, I helped you out by including a working link. The reason I asked you to always check the links after the post is up, is because many of us have had the same problem with spaces being removed or other issues making the links not work.
In Post #4 , directed at Rollfast, who clearly did not read the article before his Post #2 .
In Post #4 , directed at Rollfast, who clearly did not read the article before his Post #2 .
Seems like Thomas Paine caught flak for that as well
Parliament is George Clinton's other band.
__________________
I don't know nothing, and I memorized it in school and got this here paper I'm proud of to show it.
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Memphis TN area
Posts: 7,391
Bikes: 2011 Felt Z85 (road/commuter), 2006 Marin Pine Mountain (utility/commuter E-bike), 1995 KHS Alite 1000 (gravel grinder)
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 676 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
13 Posts
The Dutch Reach is stupid, and in fact was coined by someone not even from the Netherlands! Dutch people don't even do this. Also, it's pretty easy to open one's door with their right hand while still looking straight ahead. And further, in nearly all cars, turning your head to look back results in a view of your B-pillar right in your face. Massive blind spot. The only REAL solution is to check your side view mirror before flinging the door open. And some sort of weird opposite hand approach certainly won't ensure that. You just have to know to do it. And Dutch people (and likely most everyone in Europe) ARE taught to check mirrors before opening car doors.
As for cyclists, ride out of the door zone. Always. Never, ever put yourself in that danger, and you'll never be doored. Pretty simple.
As for cyclists, ride out of the door zone. Always. Never, ever put yourself in that danger, and you'll never be doored. Pretty simple.
#33
For The Fun of It
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Louisissippi Coast
Posts: 5,853
Bikes: Lynskey GR300, Lynskey Backroad, Litespeed T6, Lynskey MT29, Burley Duet
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2136 Post(s)
Liked 1,649 Times
in
830 Posts
The Dutch Reach is stupid, and in fact was coined by someone not even from the Netherlands! Dutch people don't even do this. Also, it's pretty easy to open one's door with their right hand while still looking straight ahead. And further, in nearly all cars, turning your head to look back results in a view of your B-pillar right in your face. Massive blind spot. The only REAL solution is to check your side view mirror before flinging the door open. And some sort of weird opposite hand approach certainly won't ensure that. You just have to know to do it. And Dutch people (and likely most everyone in Europe) ARE taught to check mirrors before opening car doors.
As for cyclists, ride out of the door zone. Always. Never, ever put yourself in that danger, and you'll never be doored. Pretty simple.
As for cyclists, ride out of the door zone. Always. Never, ever put yourself in that danger, and you'll never be doored. Pretty simple.
Spot on!
#34
Cycle Year Round
You cannot imagine a collision with subsequent fire and the door is locked because an object is in the door zone? What a very limited imagination.
__________________
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
#35
Cycle Year Round
Actually, there were similar concerns (and still are) during the transition from manual crank windows to power windows, etc.: How would people get out if the car became waterlogged?
That proved to be a greater concern theoretical than in reality. In any event, it shouldn't prove to great an engineering solution to include a manual override for such an instant. What do you think?
That proved to be a greater concern theoretical than in reality. In any event, it shouldn't prove to great an engineering solution to include a manual override for such an instant. What do you think?
__________________
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
#37
20+mph Commuter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Greenville. SC USA
Posts: 7,518
Bikes: Surly LHT, Surly Lowside, a folding bike, and a beater.
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1434 Post(s)
Liked 331 Times
in
219 Posts
Object in approaching door zone has to be moving. AND...same as electric door locks and windows in a submerged car, the safety feature is a brick, or similar glass breaking device. Technology can't save us all!
#38
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Memphis TN area
Posts: 7,391
Bikes: 2011 Felt Z85 (road/commuter), 2006 Marin Pine Mountain (utility/commuter E-bike), 1995 KHS Alite 1000 (gravel grinder)
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 676 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
13 Posts
I have not found that to be the case. In 5+ years riding, I simply do not ride in the door zone unless it's for a very quick second like avoiding a road hazard or something, and usually that's only on a residential road with no lane lines, and a car parked along the curb.
#39
Full Member
Thread Starter
I agree there should be legislation to support this, but it doesn't have to be a enforced with nanny-policing and tickets. Just mandate that it be taught in all driving courses and part of drivers' license tests, and legislate that door-involved accidents are, by default, the fault of the door operator. If you get doored riding your bike (or car or motorcycle or scooter) you have a slam dunk case, the offenders insurance goes up, and the financial incentives will get people's attention.
you could also promote it as a "popular fad" amongst the likely automobile offenders like big truck drivers. Like public service announcement or something.
Again, important point, I've been seeing drivers DOING IT. as in, voluntarily.
#40
Full Member
Thread Starter
I have not found that to be the case. In 5+ years riding, I simply do not ride in the door zone unless it's for a very quick second like avoiding a road hazard or something, and usually that's only on a residential road with no lane lines, and a car parked along the curb.
Still, motorists ought to be more aware of cyclists.
#41
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Memphis TN area
Posts: 7,391
Bikes: 2011 Felt Z85 (road/commuter), 2006 Marin Pine Mountain (utility/commuter E-bike), 1995 KHS Alite 1000 (gravel grinder)
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 676 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
13 Posts
I saw a Mac-truck driver getting out of the truck using the Dutch Reach, crossing the street to get coffee and donuts. And then I realized I was biking down a road that was too busy for cyclists, so I ended up changing up my route.
Still, motorists ought to be more aware of cyclists.
Still, motorists ought to be more aware of cyclists.
#42
Banned
Did This topic before..
.. in the You Guys 'They Should ' Committee Agenda, I've mentioned moving the driver side door handle
to be in such a position , the only way you could open the door is by reaching for it with the hand furthest from the door
which is the 'Dutch Reach' handle would be directly in line with your shoulder,, so as to require you to twist around , with the other hand ..
in a world that rather than investing in making it better, destroyed public transit to privatize getting around to require car buying by the individuals ...
Don't Hold Your Breath
....
to be in such a position , the only way you could open the door is by reaching for it with the hand furthest from the door
which is the 'Dutch Reach' handle would be directly in line with your shoulder,, so as to require you to twist around , with the other hand ..
in a world that rather than investing in making it better, destroyed public transit to privatize getting around to require car buying by the individuals ...
Don't Hold Your Breath
....
#43
Full Member
I agree there should be legislation to support this, but it doesn't have to be a enforced with nanny-policing and tickets. Just mandate that it be taught in all driving courses and part of drivers' license tests, and legislate that door-involved accidents are, by default, the fault of the door operator. If you get doored riding your bike (or car or motorcycle or scooter) you have a slam dunk case, the offenders insurance goes up, and the financial incentives will get people's attention.
the door operator is already at fault, by default,and this needs no legislation. while the fault and legal responsibility lies with the door operator if a cyclist gets doored, that doesn't matter much to the cyclist who is on the deck, flopping like a fish on the beach. avoiding the door zone is entirely within cyclists' control, so any door collision is really on them.
Last edited by adablduya; 01-07-19 at 02:42 PM.
#44
20+mph Commuter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Greenville. SC USA
Posts: 7,518
Bikes: Surly LHT, Surly Lowside, a folding bike, and a beater.
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1434 Post(s)
Liked 331 Times
in
219 Posts
User perception, IMO.
You gotta do what you gotta do. But Patrick said the busy route was avoidable for him, so he chose a route where his perception felt it had less hazardous situations. Smart.
What if you happen to have a destination on that road?
#45
20+mph Commuter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Greenville. SC USA
Posts: 7,518
Bikes: Surly LHT, Surly Lowside, a folding bike, and a beater.
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1434 Post(s)
Liked 331 Times
in
219 Posts
the door operator is already at fault, by default. while the fault and legal responsibility lies with the door operator if a cyclist gets doored, that doesn't matter much to the cyclist who is on the deck, flopping like a fish on the beach. avoiding the door zone is entirely within cyclists' control, so any door collision is really on them.
#46
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Memphis TN area
Posts: 7,391
Bikes: 2011 Felt Z85 (road/commuter), 2006 Marin Pine Mountain (utility/commuter E-bike), 1995 KHS Alite 1000 (gravel grinder)
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 676 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
13 Posts
Well sure, we all would likely choose lower traffic routes when the option is available. But sooner or later one who cycles, especially for transportation, will have to mix it up with traffic at some point, to get to a destination on a road with traffic. That of course, assumes that you don't use the sidewalk, or even the grass when there's no sidewalk.
#47
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 4,077
Bikes: Velo Orange Piolet
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2228 Post(s)
Liked 2,011 Times
in
972 Posts
while the fault and legal responsibility lies with the door operator if a cyclist gets doored, that doesn't matter much to the cyclist who is on the deck, flopping like a fish on the beach.
#48
20+mph Commuter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Greenville. SC USA
Posts: 7,518
Bikes: Surly LHT, Surly Lowside, a folding bike, and a beater.
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1434 Post(s)
Liked 331 Times
in
219 Posts
Well sure, we all would likely choose lower traffic routes when the option is available. But sooner or later one who cycles, especially for transportation, will have to mix it up with traffic at some point, to get to a destination on a road with traffic. That of course, assumes that you don't use the sidewalk, or even the grass when there's no sidewalk.
#49
What happened?
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Around here somewhere
Posts: 7,927
Bikes: 3 Rollfasts, 3 Schwinns, a Shelby and a Higgins Flightliner in a pear tree!
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1835 Post(s)
Liked 292 Times
in
255 Posts
This doesn't mean the driver in front of you wasn't doing the same etc. When this occurs you get pile-ups. Allowing yourself to get into herd mentality is dangerous.
__________________
I don't know nothing, and I memorized it in school and got this here paper I'm proud of to show it.
#50
☢
However, in the real world there is no road I can take where I'm not surrounded by traffic and often times aggressive drives; and one event doesn't wait until one ends before the other begins. They all can occur simultaneously.
So I can avoid the door zone completely and place myself in the lane of traffic where motorist don't observe the 3 ft rule. I effectively trade one potential moment of danger for another. If I see someone exiting their car do I move over out of the door zone and into the lane of an oncoming motorist?
What if I also spot a road hazard as I attempt to move over? Some sections I have to travel require constant computation with instantaneous decisions that don't always workout to my best interest.
Cycling is a dynamic process and there is always A event happening simultaneous with B and/or C. What is the solution for avoiding all of them, when they occur all at once?