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Front Rack for 80's MTB

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Front Rack for 80's MTB

Old 10-21-20, 05:46 PM
  #1  
wintermute
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Front Rack for 80's MTB

I have an '86 Kuwahara MTB frame that I've built-up as a drop bar conversion with the intent of mixed surface and offroad touring. I may eventually want a rear rack but I want to start out with a front rack. After doing tons of research, I'm debating between the Blackburn Outpost Front Rack and the Blackburn Outpost Fat Front/Rear Rack. The positive and negative of the Outpost Front is that I think I can get the paniers a little lower - better center of gravity, worse off-road. I could see this bike eventually having the Outpost Fat (which is designed for front and back use) on the front and back. Thoughts?
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Old 10-21-20, 07:41 PM
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https://www.bikeforums.net/touring/1...ront-rack.html

We've used the one described above on two different bikes on two tours and it works great..not a single issue.
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Old 10-22-20, 04:10 AM
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Originally Posted by wintermute
....with the intent of mixed surface and offroad touring.....

....The positive and negative of the Outpost Front is that I think I can get the paniers a little lower - better center of gravity, worse off-road. ...

as your intended use is offroad, and you know the negative of your potential front rack is....."worse off road".....
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Old 10-22-20, 10:28 AM
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wintermute
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Originally Posted by saddlesores
as your intended use is offroad, and you know the negative of your potential front rack is....."worse off road".....
I guess I should've explained myself better - I tend to type long posts and tried to keep it short. I guess my question comes down to is, what is the bigger concern - having parts of the rack located below the axle, causing possible rock strike issues (not that myself or this bike can handle anything too technical or rocky), or having the paniers too high, causing center of gravity issues?
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Old 10-22-20, 10:43 AM
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I think lower(lower center of gravity) will improve handling, but..there's always a but, it depends on where you're riding. The low pannier on front rock-brush strike issue is always raised in discussions like this. I have to wonder just how many people actually run into exactly this same issue when riding. If one is riding an open area trail or gravel/fire road, then I'm not seeing any obstacles to get hung up on. If the intent is to ride more technical single track then clearly low front panniers aren't the best choice. In town, low panniers can brush curbs depending on how low the panniers are..just being mindful solves that.

The (one) alternative of course is the bikepacking route where everything is mounted up high on the frame. This solves the technical single track issue, while trading off a much higher CG..and experiencing any potential associated handling issues everywhere except on technical single track.

..the right tool for every job..
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Old 10-22-20, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by wintermute
I guess I should've explained myself better - I tend to type long posts and tried to keep it short. I guess my question comes down to is, what is the bigger concern - having parts of the rack located below the axle, causing possible rock strike issues (not that myself or this bike can handle anything too technical or rocky), or having the paniers too high, causing center of gravity issues?
I used to use a Surly front rack, that allowed setting the panniers at different heights and I tried the different heights to experiment. I concluded that as long as your load is reasonable for a typical pair of front panniers that usually are in the 25 liter range for the pair, raising panniers several inches will not impact handling that much. It was noticeable, but not problematic.

I once scrapped the bottom of a pannier on a curb, I heard the sound but the contact was minimal so it did not upset my steering, but once was enough, I give curbs a lot of clearance when I am using a low rider rack.

I have had more problems with eroded narrow trails that are deeper than the surrounding ground, in cases like that sometimes you are riding in a trough that is not much wider than the pedals and if he pedal catches the side of the trough, that can really slow you down and upset your balance while you try to recover. And pedals are usually lower than panniers that are hung from a low rider rack. Example in the photo below, you can see how narrow the trail was and occasionally the trail was deep enough that I would catch a pedal on the side of the trough I was in. I did not have panniers on the bike, but I think the panniers would have been high enough to clear it where the pedals did not.

If you are in an area where there are occasional rocks that you have to worry about snagging on a pannier, I am sure you would be riding really slow and giving everything a lot of clearance.





I do not know how high you are thinking of mounting the panniers, but on my expedition bike I have the panniers mounted above the mid-fork rack mounts, you can see that the pannier hook rail is quite a bit higher than the fork rack mount.




That does not impair my handling to a degree that I would have difficulty. Bottom of the pannier is near the axle, I have a lot of ground clearance.


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Old 10-22-20, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by fishboat
I think lower(lower center of gravity) will improve handling, but..there's always a but, it depends on where you're riding. The low pannier on front rock-brush strike issue is always raised in discussions like this. I have to wonder just how many people actually run into exactly this same issue when riding. If one is riding an open area trail or gravel/fire road, then I'm not seeing any obstacles to get hung up on. If the intent is to ride more technical single track then clearly low front panniers aren't the best choice. In town, low panniers can brush curbs depending on how low the panniers are..just being mindful solves that.

The (one) alternative of course is the bikepacking route where everything is mounted up high on the frame. This solves the technical single track issue, while trading off a much higher CG..and experiencing any potential associated handling issues everywhere except on technical single track.

..the right tool for every job..
In 1986, I did a tour on a very similar bike to wintermute’s, although I don’t recall having a fork rake quite like that one. I used a top mount deck which worked well enough. I would normally have used a low rider but I was also concerned about clearance with a low rider. The rack was similar to this one.



I’ve since tried trailers.and bikepacking gear. Both have their issues. Trailers are heavy and can cause handling problems, especially on steep downhills...they lift the back of the bike. Bikepacking gear tends to ride rather high, like you’ve said, which also causes some handling problems of their own. I have used low mount small bags on the fork legs (see below) but I haven’t made up my mind if they are useful or not. There is also the issue of carrying them around. If you have to take the bags off, there are several bags that are awkward to carry. Panniers are easier.

But bikepacking bags are more secure to the frame so they don’t bounce off like panniers can.



They worked well enough on smooth off-road. But on more rugged single track riding, they are more of a problem than useful. I rubbed a small hole in them by banging them against rocks. The bags also get moved around even with the clamps very tight.



For wintermute’s question, I’d probably go with a high rack with panniers as a cheap solution, if you have the panniers already. Bikepacking gear can be rather expensive because of the number of bags you need.
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Old 10-23-20, 07:43 AM
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Well the bike certainly has lots of frame space for one big frame bag.
How does the bike ride? Are you happy with the bars at that height?
why are you considering an extra wide rack for a fat bike? It will put the bags outwards a fair amount.
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Old 10-23-20, 09:08 AM
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First off, I just want to say thank you to everyone for the help!

Originally Posted by fishboat
The (one) alternative of course is the bikepacking route where everything is mounted up high on the frame. This solves the technical single track issue, while trading off a much higher CG..and experiencing any potential associated handling issues everywhere except on technical single track.
I already have a (short duration) bikepacking setup on my Salsa Fargo

Originally Posted by djb
Well the bike certainly has lots of frame space for one big frame bag.
How does the bike ride? Are you happy with the bars at that height?
why are you considering an extra wide rack for a fat bike? It will put the bags outwards a fair amount.
Actually, I'm really happy (surprisingly happy) how this frankenbike rides. I have been having a lot of fun riding it around locally and going on non-technical trails. I'm happy with the bar height because I using a dirt drop setup where the drops are the primary hand position, between that and my bad back and hips, it works for me. I may decide to go lower if I want to use the bars more like standard road drops.
The Blackburn Outpost Fat is designed so you can adjust the width, which is pretty ingenious. It's not meant strictly for fat bikes. And it can be mounted front or rear. The standard Outpost Rear, from what I've read, has a bit of a trapezoidal shape, so that the bottom of the paniers are further from the bike than the top. Regarding the standard Outpost Front, my main concerns would be the bottom of the rack striking things and the top platform is a bit on the small side. Of course, the Outpost Fat might be obscenely long for the front.

Ahhhh, analysis paralysis!

Edited to add: I think the Outpost Fat is out of the running for the front rack option - I just found a photo of it mounted as a front rack and the panniers mount way forward of the axle!

Last edited by wintermute; 10-23-20 at 09:38 AM.
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Old 10-23-20, 07:37 PM
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Hey, if the bar position works for you, that's all that's important.
For sure getting smaller panniers higher up will work, but as those with lots of experience doing this , like cycco, shows that it really depends on the "offroad" and how much gets shaken about and or scuffed.
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