agg1337

Hello all,
before we get started, I've tried searching and havent had any luck. Everything I find is archived or irrelevant.

I would like to build a bike using modern new/lightly used parts. Ive only ever dealt with old bikes and still love them, but I've always had an itch to build myself into the modern era of bicycle technology.

Plain and simple, I want a bike with the following and nothing else: freewheel 3/5/7 speed hub, 700c wheels, bullhorn bars, fenders, simple/unbranded frame (to wrap in vinyl), and a rear rack. Bike will be used for a wide variety of things: commuting, leisure, exercise, bar hopping, etc.

I've looked over Sheldon Brown's website and various other resources but I just cant seem to retain or absorb the proper information. I think I've got the basics but almost all of my bikes and parts have come from craigslist or parts bins and almost all of my tinkering has been dont with adapted tools. When I search for the newer stuff I'm bombarded with so many different brands and parts that I eventually just get distracted with something else. This leads me to believe that there would be more to building such a bike than I'm aware of. Things like compatibility, adapters, brands to avoid, parts to avoid, places to shop, etc...

I'm fairly handy and can learn almost anything once it's actually in front of me, but as I stated before, all the specs and reading on the web just isn't helping.

A few notes
- Local bike shop is not very knowledgable and doesn't have much selection. Nothing against them as they've helped me in the past, but bike culture here is extremely limited.
- I want to BUILD this bike, not buy it
- Please dont link me to $2000 bikes that have the above specs
- Feel free to post or PM me.
- Suggestions are awesome
- Ideas are awesome
- Questions are awesome
- Flame away if you feel the need
- I'm poor-ish

That should cover it. Fire away.

pierce

your list of "I want this and nothing else" neglected some fairly important things like brakes, chain, crankset, pedals

are you prepared to spoke your own wheels? 3 speed stuff is fairly rare now, and considered really low end.

the gold standard internal gear hub is the Shimano nexus 7 speed. you can buy prebuilt wheels, or spoke your own using nexus hubs. they are 135mm rear axle nut spacing, so you'll want to use a 'hybrid' frame rather than a 'road bike' frame (or use a steel frame that can be cold set)

Past that the rest is just accumulating the bits you want to use. find a frame you like, in an appropriate size and as old and funky as you care, sandblast, primer, and paint it a base coat to go under your 'vinyl wrap' (sounds heavy!). make sure said frame has fender and rack mount lugs. find the handlebars you like, then an appropriate stem (assuming the frame has threadless)

UnsafeAlpine

Start with the frame. Find one you like. There are a ton of compatability issues and they all revolve around the frame. Once you know the specs of the frame, then you can start looking into parts. Nashbar sells cheap, unbranded frames so that may be a place to start.

Retro Grouch 

Just do it.

Start with a frame. Make sure it's the right size and has the braze on bits, like rack mounting eyes, that you want. If you're looking at old used frames, I'd stay away from anything with a French name because you can run into some funky threading.

Then start accumulating parts and bolting them on. You will almost surely make some mistakes, but that's tuition in the school of bike mechanics. It will almost surely cost more than buying the equivlent from Bikes Direct, but one thing that Bikes Direct can't sell you the satisfaction that comes from doing it yourself.

agg1337

Pierce - That list was just a list of features that the bike must/will have. I know that I'll need the rest of the parts to make it function, obviously. I didn't realize that 3 speed stuff was considered low end? Has technology just progressed that much? Is it only considered low end because of the price point? The vinyl wrap will not be heavy at all. It's the same stuff that you see on cars and busses. I wrapped a bike in a wood grain pattern last year.

UnsafeAlpine - thanks, any other frames to start with? Brands, websites? Frames to stay away from?

Retro Grouch - I like your style. I've got a DIY mentality and it comes through in just about every facet of my life. Mistakes are awesome tools.

pierce

for wheels, you might consider these...

https://handspunwheels.com/products/view_product/1741/
https://handspunwheels.com/products/view_product/1740/

(note that front wheel is a dynamo).

those reflective rims are a great idea on a commuter, they really light up in car headlights and help reinforce "BICYCLE" to the car drivers, as opposed to LED's blinking in the dark like fireflies.

those dyad rims are bomb-proof, and can mount most any tire from 25 up to 40mm or wider (I'd probably use 28 or 32 on a urban commuter).

yes, this is an 8-speed internal rear, not '3' as you requested, you'll pretty much have to have a 3-speed custom built, and they tend to be low end hubs..

fietsbob

buy used stuff , get an old bike strip it and rebuild it with different parts, Sturmey archer 3 speeds

all the parts of them are available..

if your head is spinning you might have caught the Flu, thats going around..

join a bike Co-op probably one around the U of Iowa, or should be..

start one yourself if not.

agg1337

Pierce - Holy****money! Way out of my price range!

Fietsbob - any recommendations on a used bike? I know that's a vague question but I don't know where else to begin. There are so many brands and models. I looked at the Sturmey Archer S3X. Opinions?

pierce

Sturmey Archer style 3-speeds were popular in the 1940s-1960s. S-A themselves went broke, and the brand and design is now owned by SunRingle of China, who continues to make them using the same basic 1930s design, but with chinese steel instead of british. caveat emptor.

Shimano Alfine 8-speed are their higher end IGH (internally geared hubs), while Nexus -3, -4, -7 speed are their low to mid range. these are, by all reports, quite nice. they can be used with grip shifters, or trigger shifters.

this stuff is aimed at the 'comfort bike' market, as the vast majority of mid to high end bikes use derailleur gearing due to the weight and simplicity (and cost, good IGH hubs are more expensive to make).

re: frames, since you're doing a ground up build, I'd be looking at places like craigslist, flea markets, and garage sales for something used that you can strip for parts. why buy new ?

another consideration... IGH, like ss/fixies, require a chain tension adjustment. many newer derailleur bikes use 'vertical dropouts' that provide no such adjustments, so if you use a frame like this, you need a chain tensioner. older road bikes had horizontal dropouts that provide about an inch of adjustment in the position of the rear wheel, which is more than adequate (you can adjust the chain length in 1" increments, so that translates to 1/2" of rear axle latitude), and track style frames have dropouts that mount from behind and have tension set screws.

and then, there's chainline...

you'll also need to figure out the correct BB (bottom bracket) length to get the right chain line, this is as much art as science. if you are starting with a donor bicycle, measure its existing chain line (see https://sheldonbrown.com/chainline.html#front for how). if your donor bike has a crankset with seperate sprockets, you can easily convert it to a single ring by removing one or the other, and its default chain line with the existing bottom bracket will be the position you put that single ring in. now, the chain line you NEED will be determined by the rear IGH, take the distance between the locknuts (probably 135mm for a comfort hub), divide that by two (135/2 = 67.5mm), then subtract the distance you measure from the inside of the drive side dropout to the rear sprocket). if this rear chain line matches your front chain line, your chain will run straight.

fietsbob

Thats why I say Go hang out at a Bike CoOp, and learn there ,,
can You tell the difference between how a wally world frame ois made and a better one,

thats a good place to start .. Read Books, Magazines , and the Bike Brochures at the bike shop


I cant teach college from my keyboard either.

Pierce is Mistaken Sturmey Archer was taken over,
Moved to Taiwan And is part of Sun Race Corporation.

Sturmey Archer Sun Race has Innovated and expanded the product Line, Extensively

S3X is one of their Designs British were out of the picture by then.


S3X is a non freewheel Hub, aka 3 speed Fixie.. the kids like fixies these days..

but the clever talented engineers , designed it to take a Splined Cog for the fixie , thing.

but machined threads into the tips of the splines
so a separate single cog freewheel will thread on.

pierce

most classic S-A 3-speed bicycles used an old 26" wheel size thats NOT the same as 26" cruiser/mountain bike. thats putting you in a whole different set of hurt re: obsolete standards and sizes. looks like the few 3-speeds being sold today are for frames with 110 or 120mm rear widths, while modern bikes are 130 or 135mm. steel, you can bend, alloy, you can't.


btw, did some poking around. Nexus 7/8 speed hubs sell for around $200-$300+ just for the hub alone.. hard to find anything but the coaster brake variety :-/

these mostly get used on high end fat tire urban "cruisers" and 'comfort bikes' that sell for some serious scratch.

pierce

OP is in small town Iowa, one lousy bike shop, I doubt there's any sort of co-op near him.


Ah, I said SunRingle, its SunRace, ooops.


and those S3X hubs are like $130 or so, looks like. anyways, I don't know of ANY off the shelf 700c wheels being built with those, so you'll either be paying someone to build you a custom set, or lacing up your own.

agg1337

Okay,
I hope I understand all of this correctly...

-i'll either need an older frame or a SS frame to accomplish the horizontal dropouts and or/spacing? Could i use a SS frame with cable guide clamps? I definitely have no problem going through garage sales, flea markets, or craigslist, as thats what ive always done for cycling stuff in the past, but as i mentioned before, bike culture around here is extremely limited and in turn leaves the used market rather thin. The only reason i'd like to buy a new frame, is purely for the fact that i almost never buy anything new, cycling related or not.

-Cant tell if you guys are for or against the new Sturmey Archer hubs? Either way, i have a friend that could lace a hub into a wheel for me and ill look for a used set to use. I definitely dont want a coaster brake so are there any other options for IGH? Are they all rare like the Shimano ones?

-Chainline sounds like its just a matter of getting the right parts with corresponding lengths.

-There are a couple bike shops around the university, but its a 45 minute drive from me...

Airburst

It's not exactly rare around here, I walked into my local branch of Evans' Cycles the other day looking for lights, and they had a whole rack of 3-speed city bikes. Evans' is not known for selling much low-end stuff.

Besides, the base model Sturmey-Archer 3-speed hub retails for around £60. Not exactly low-end pricing.

OP: If you wish to build a 3-speed bike, the Sturmey-Archer 3-speed range is probably the way to go, so I guess I'm for them. Their AW (steel shell) and X-RF3 (aluminium shell) are very reliable, and all the spare parts for them are available if anything does go wrong - a big advantage over the Shimano internal-gear hubs.


Edit: OP, you can use an SA three-speed with clamp-on cable stops - that's one of the traditional ways they were set up.
Their 3-speed fixed hub, the S3X, can be retrofitted with a freewheel to allow it to work as a freewheel 3-speed with a closer gear range than the standard one, but you should probably be aware that the S3X uses a modified version of Sturmey-Archer's 5-speed mechanism, meaning you could get the same three gears, plus two higher ones, for less money, if you bought one of the 5-speeds instead.

mconlonx

Hate to say it, but you'd be hard-pressed to build something on your own cheaper than this:

https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/oxford.htm

Not modern, but if this was me, I'd find a fairly serviceable 80s 12sp sport/tour bike, ditch the drivetrain, troll C&V for a Sturmey Archer 3sp hub, and go from there. Build a wheel, lose one chainring, figure out the handlebar situation.

If you scrounge, $2-300.

Alternately, a Pake ss/fg frame/fork, Soma Iggy wheel-set & urban pursuit bars...

Consider the Sturmey archer S2 2sp hub -- two speeds, freewheels, no messing around with shifter or cable run. The 120 OLD hub will slot into any track/fixed gear/single speed frame...

agg1337

Airburst - Thanks, that was very helpful. I actually have a freewheel laying around somewhere. Can those hubs be used with a bar end shifter? i looked into them several months ago and i think i read that they could.

mconlonx - i knew someone would post something close to what i want! it would be way cheaper to just buy that bike, i agree. but i really want to build it myself. that being said, if i were to buy that bike, could i switch the bars to bullhorns and still find a shifter to work with the hub? arent IGHs only compatible with certain type of shifters?

Airburst

Internally geared hubs generally only work with a shifter designed to operate that specific model of hub, as shifters pull a specific amount of cable per "click" if they're indexed. Sturmey-Archer offer a good selection of shifter options. The S3X uses a different shifter to the rest of their 3-speeds, which use the same cable pull as they have since about 1939. As I recall, bar-end shifters are available for both types of hub, and for the 5-speed as well if you decide to get that.

hybridbkrdr

I'm going to re-post info I've already posted before because I think it's relevant here. Just a bit of background information: I wanted to build a bike myself, then ended up changing my ideas on what I wanted so many times I bought almost two of everything you need to build a bike. Haha, so recently I bought another frame.

So, here's so more information. By the way, for "different" kinds of bicycle parts, I think Sturmey Archer, Velo-Orange and Rivbike are known for that.

I copied and pasted but you can find more info here:
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...1#post15119518

First, I want to list some online stores where you can order parts: niagaracycle, cambriabike, eBikestop, nashbar, icycles, velo orange, bikeparts, bikeman, wheelworld, harriscyclery, jensonusa, universal cycles, eBay, amazon, chainreactioncycles (uk), saint john cycles (uk), bike24 (Germany), bikexperts (Germany), cyclepath.ca (Canada), smartbikeparts, cheapbikeparts360, bikepartsplace, price point, blueskycycling, performance bike, bikeisland, benscycle, starbike, aebike, airbomb
https://harriscyclery.net/page.cfm?PageID=49
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...s-on-groupsets
ribble, shinybikes, probikekit (maybe that's pbk), velomine (e-mail for better price), merlincycles.co.uk
loosescrews, xxcycle
https://www.rosebikes.co.uk/ https://www.rose-vpc.fr/

Shimano parts hierarchy:
Tourney
Altus
Acera
Alivio
Deore
Deore LX (trekking in Europe)
Deore SLX
Deore XT
Deore XTR

List of parts needed to build a bike:

frame:
fork:
handlebars:
stem:
grips:
headset:
headset spacers:
seatpost:
seatpost clamp:
saddle:
crankset:
bottom bracket:
front derailleur:
rear derailleur:
brake levers:
brakes:
shifters:
cassette:
chain:
pedals:
rims strips:
wheels:
tires:
tubes:
wheel reflectors:
spoke protector:

EXAMPLE OF A BUILD (not suggestions or recommendations, just to illustrate):

FRAME:
Sette Reken $120
https://www.pricepoint.com/detail/225...tail-Frame.htm
WHEELSET:
Shimano Deore LX with Rhyno Lite rims $100
https://www.cambriabike.com/shopexd.asp?id=163415
SUSPENSION FORK:
RockShox XC28 $125
https://www.ebikestop.com/rockshox_xc...nti-FK6776.php
CRANKSET:
Shimano Deore LX FC-M570 $43
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=86411
SHIFTER/BRAKE LEVER COMBO:
Shimano Deore LX M580 $30
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...x?ModelID=6077
BRAKES:
Shimano Deore pair $45
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=39004
CASSETTE:
Sram PG950 $23
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...x?ModelID=5045
CHAIN:
KMC X9 $20
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=25423
BOTTOM BRACKET:
(my research shows FC-M570 is square taper and sizing I'm guessing 68x113mm)
Shimano BB-UN55 $25
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=71369
PEDALS:
Dimension Translucent Blue Town pedals $13
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=721824
STEM:
Dimension 80mm $20
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=732667
HEADSET:
FSA "The Pig" $25
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...oducts_id=1786
SPACERS:
Avenir $6
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=433780
HANDLEBARS:
Origin8 Urban MX $22
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=447724
SEATPOST CLAMP:
Origin8 $6
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=431889
SADDLE:
WTB Speed V $24
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=428984
GRIPS:
Sunlite Classic blue $4
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=509356
TIRES:
Michelin Tracker 26x1.95 pair $50
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=712205
TUBES:
Michelin Protek Max pair $17
(pretty sure the Rhyno Lite rims are Shraeder valve)
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=720350
RIM STRIP:
Schwalbe (I'm guessing it's x2) $6
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=36337
SEATPOST:
Kally 400mm $16
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=417996
REAR DERAILLEUR:
Shimano Deore $45
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=40543
FRONT DERAILLEUR:
Shimano LX 570 top pull $15
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...px?ModelID=446
CHAINSTAY PROTECTOR:
Wheels Manufacturing $5
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=437965
FENDERS:
Zefal $17
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=449289
SPOKE PROTECTOR:
Dimension $3
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=419814
LOCKING SKEWERS:
Sunlite $12
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=507604
FRONT REFLECTOR:
Sunlite $3
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...oducts_id=5775
REAR REFLECTOR:
Sunlite $2
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...oducts_id=5776
WHEEL REFLECTORS:
Sunlite $3
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...oducts_id=5777
BELL:
Pyramid $4
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ducts_id=31336
Total: $850
suggested retail price for bike with Shimano Deore LX on it: $1200?
　
I know there are frames all over the place. I find the WD Cycle Elite frames on eBay really nice. No, I haven't built it up yet and don't know how it rides. But the eyelets for the backrack and bottle cages etc. all impressed me and it's also "normal" weight for a frame (I believe about 4 pounds).

Determining the type and size of bottom bracket used and size of seatpost used might be the most important details you might want to start with. Like the WD Cycle Elite frame I got from zestbicycleshop takes a 68mm bottom bracket (some cranks take 68x113mm), seatpost clamp and front derailleur size 31.8mm and seatpost size 27.2mm. It also takes a regular 1-1/8" threadless headset. (Some are integrated or semi-integrated.) Also, it takes a top pull front derailleur. And zestbicycleshop told me it takes a suspension fork with a travel of either 80 or 100mm. And info I've seen suggests it could take 80mm for a small frame and 100mm for a medium sized frame so I plan to go 100mm for my 17 inch frame. Rear dropout takes 135mm rear wheels.

dscheidt

And with new tooling, with the end result that the stuff they make is better than the junk SA were selling for their last forty years in England. Might not be as nice as the stuff from the forties, or it might be.

mconlonx

Oh, right. No, Shimano does not make a shifter that would work... But you could always use a Sturmey Archer 3sp shifter with the Shimano hub. I forget if it's the regular one or the S3X version.

Go with the S2 2sp hub and you don't have to worry about a shifter -- S2 shifts via kickback action. Packpedal not even a half a rotation and it shifts.

You're in Iowa -- what do you need gears for? I thought the whole state was basically pool-table flat...?

pierce

you can probably find close enough to that spec bike a lot cheaper prebuilt.

Airburst

I'm told the really old (40's and 50's) english stuff is best, followed by the new taiwanese stuff, then the english stuff from the last couple of decades of production. Apparently when SunRace bought the whole affair up, they discovered that a lot of the tooling was pretty much worn out.

The main change was the redesign of the 3-speed mechanism to eliminate the gap between second and third gear, into which the hub had a tendency to slip under very hard pedalling in third. That was actually done right before the UK operation went out of business, but it's mainly associated with the taiwanese hubs.

All this is referring to the traditional 3-speed, the S3X is a new design, but as I said, you're better off with the 5-speed if you're just going to thread a freewheel onto the S3X's driver, as the bottom three gears of that are the three gears on the S3X.

FMB42

+ 1 on UnsafeAlpine, Retro Grouch, and the other wise comments posted in here.


You might be over-thinking the big picture on this.

Imo, you're going to want to focus on one or two component groups (or "subsets") at a time. Be sure that you "consult" with SB's website before, during, and after the build process:

https://sheldonbrown.com/glossary-b.html

Start with a good (used or new) frame that: 1. fits you. And 2. closely meets your requirements.

Determine the frame's rear dropout space and which hubs will fit said space (you should be able to locate at least 2 different hub brand/type choices that will meet your needs). Research and then note the chainline of the hub, or hubs, that you have in mind. You may, or may not, want to buy a hub just yet..

Next move forward to the crankset (if applicable) and bottom bracket. Research and carefully note which "bottom bracket/crankset/rear hub" combination gives you the best matching chainline. Note: you may want to purchase a new bottom bracket (i.e. "BB") as a means of selecting the correct BB spindle lenght (Sheldon Brown's website had a lot of good info on bottom brackets and their spindle length to chainline relationship) Here are some SB links that cover the BB/spindle length/crankset subject:

https://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_bo-z.html#bottom

https://sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html

Purhase the hub and bottom bracket/crankset combination with the very best chailine match. Note: you'll probably want to buy a new bottom bracket so that you can positively select the correct spindle length (besides, decent BBs can be had for a very cheap price these days).

You can next move on to selecting a suitable chainring type that is sized to: 1. clear your frame's chainstay and 2. meets your gearing needs (running a 3 speed rear hub should give you a "lot of room" when it comes to chainring sizing (i.e. tooth count). Here's a SB link with soom good chainring type/size info (i.e. Bolt Circle Diameter (B.C.D. etc)

https://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_bo-z.html#bottom

You can next move on to the "wheels and brakes" once you've selected and/or installed the frame/rear hub/BB/crankset "subgroup".

Everything else is pretty much "downhill" after that.

rudypyatt

FYI:

https://www.sturmey-archer.com/

also,

https://www.somafab.com/parts/wheels-hubs-spokes

https://bikeisland.com/cgi-bin/BKTK_S...ls&ProdID=1708, which includes all the trimmings except an appropriate freewheel.

What you're describing is more or less a "club" bicycle, about which the links others have provided will give you more information. And I'm not suggesting to run out and buy one (it is one of those thousand dollar bikes you mentioned), but maybe this one will give you further inspiration for your build:

https://www.traitorcycles.com/Bikes_Luggernaut3spd.cfm?Token={ts_2013-01-21_00:29:36**-38818677

and the vintage versions, like so:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/9157103@N05/6695279521/

Hope this helps.

pierce

so the soma 700c 3spd wheel is $200, using the S-RF3 S-A hub with integral freewheel and no brake. its 127mm wide at the lock nuts, but I'm sure you could add spacers to make it fit any width frame you want... the matching front wheel is $120. these rims are for use with rim brakes (dual pivot side-pulls, or v-brakes, or cantilevers, or whatever.