studbike1

Looks like nobody has posted this yet:

https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/gea...e-found_504284

studbike1

I agree with shimano in terms of the test having limited translation to the real world. Even if you increase the average speed to 12mph, most of these chains only lasted about 1000 miles, and everyone who rides a lot knows that a chain should last at least twice that long with minimal lubrication, and will go longer if you maintain it frequently.

Also it looks like the campy chain got something wrong towards the beginning of the test. the slope of the curve is similar to the winning connex chain.

Sy Reene

Unfortunately, for whatever reason, Campy got the short end of the stick re: the value judgement. Every other brand had some pricepoint options (value to high end) tested.. For whatever reason, this seems always be the case .. never includes the potenza/centaur level (nor even Chorus in this test).

Also worth noting how curious it is that different testing orgs can come up with results sometimes at odds with each other, eg from ZeroFriction's tests

Sy Reene

Seriously.. who is the Connex spokesman..?
"...For a chick-magnet like the 11sB chain, I think this is a small price to pay..."

DaveSSS 

I suspect that the application of excessive abrasives reduces all chain lives significantly. If that had not been done, the testing might have taken 3-4 times as long. I wanted to test Jobst Brandt's contention that as long as a chain wasn't used beyond 1% elongation, the mating sprockets would not be damaged. I rode a Campy 10 chain for 6,000 miles or 350 hours and measured no more than .25% elongation over the full length. Although the elongation was small, rollers had a very large amount of wear, especially on the hole in the roller and the side clearance was twice that of a new chain. The two most used sprockets, my 19 and 21 both skipped with a new chain. That proved that with this chain elongation was irrelevant, compared to roller wear.

I recently checked a KMC x11.93 chain against my chorus 11 chains with similar mileage and found the KMC to have at least .3% elongation, while the campy chains were nearly like new.

The only difference between a record and chorus chain, that I know of is the hollow pins on the record model.

Sy Reene

That's what I've heard.. so of course wondering how the Potenza level chains perform/hold up.

August West

A quick check of online prices in USA and I don't see the Connex chain for anywhere close to the price they are using (11sX for $58.99, not $47) while all the Shimano chains are available for way less than they are showing (DA for $35.34, not $44). Kind of invalidates the cost results IMHO. To the point it really doesn't make much a difference to me even with waxing them and running 3 chains in rotation.

asgelle

About as kosher as breaking into my house and taking my TV.

That IP doesn't belong to you and isn't yours to post wherever you want.

cb400bill

We have deleted the article as posting the full article breaks the Fair Use rules. Posting the link, and maybe a paragraph from the article is okay, but not the full text.

Sy Reene

Actually, from what I can tell, the pricing matches somewhat closely to what they indicated.. Realize that they used Amazon as the sole source of online pricing however.

[EDIT] Sorry, my mistake.. I hastily assumed the "X" in 11sX was meant to stand for any letter that might designate eg. a color

San Rensho 

I don't understand the overthinking. If you have an 11 speed cassette, that means that you've spent a lot of money on your bike. And have a lot of money to spend. So just buy a chain measuring device, measure your chain regularly, and then buy the cheapest chain, which is probably a KMC which is a very good product and just replace it There was that that hard?

Cyclist0108

I can't speak for others, but my primary concern is limiting the amount of wear my chain imparts on the chainrings and cassette. So I spend a little more and get XTR/Dura Ace, and I use wax because it doesn't attract sand and create grinding paste on my chain.

rm -rf

The article mentioned 0.75% elongation. I try to keep it at 1/16 inch in 12 inches, measured with a steel ruler. (It's kind of difficult to be accurate: you have to look straight at the ruler lines, measure against the edge of the pin, and hold the other end in place without moving.) 12 1/16 is 12.0625 inches, or .0625%.

They were doing the equivalent of a 150 pound rider only riding up an 8% grades at 8 mph, 90 rpm, with muddy water on the chain. 1000 miles would be reasonable!

Yes, my Campagnolo 10 speed chains had extremely low elongation, even after 3500-4000 miles. But the chains seemed to have a lot more flex side-to-side. I didn't notice much cassette wear. I tended to replace the chain around 3500 miles before going on a biking vacation, just to not worry about riding an older chain out of town.

I wonder how the rollers can get this worn without showing much chain elongation.

randallr

I run the Connex 8SX and am a big fan. Really lowers maintenance for me, very durable and I really like the way the connex link works when it's time to take the chain apart to remove it. I've had a lot more trouble taking apart a SRAM chain when it's due for a change due to corrosion, ended up having to use the chain tool to take it apart at a regular link.

DaveSSS 

A 12 inch precision ruler is best used with the chain off the bike, after it's cleaned. Just place one end on the edge of a pin. If the pin at the other end is almost half exposed, you have reached 0.5% elongation. A full half pin would be close to about 0.6%.

I have a 9/64 inch hole drilled in the top of a work bench and another 53.5 inches away. A 10D framing nail will fit snugly in the hole to hold one end of the chain. The hole at the opposite end is the length of a new chain, without the quick link. If it was 53.75 inches away, it would represent a wear of just less than .5%. I prefer to tape a 6 inch precision ruler with the center at 53.5 inches so I can measure chains of several different lengths.

Campy says to use vernier calipers and measure between the rollers. A new chain measures 131.6mm. They say to replace the chain at 132.6mm, which is a .76% increase in length, but since it's measured between rollers, most of the length increase is roller wear, not an increase in chain pitch.

San Rensho 

I go through at least 15 chains before I have to replace a cassette and even more chains before I have to replace the chainrings. In fact, the last time I had to replace the cassette was because I let ran a chain that was beyond spec and it messed up the cassette. If I had replaced it, I probably could have gotten a few more chains out of it. In other words, cassettes and chainrings last almost forever if you replace the chain well within the wear limit.

DaveSSS 

Any idea of how many miles you get per chain? There has to be a point where tossing chains too soon costs far more than replacing a chain or chain rings. I read all sorts of conflicting reports. One person claims that his small sprockets wear out very quickly, so he uses cheap Miche sprockets that can be replaced individually. I've ever experienced that. Others claim maybe only 12000 miles from chain rings. I've never experienced that either.

15 chains might cost $300-600, unless you're the person referring to $10 chains for his vintage 5 to 7 speed bikes.

Cyclist0108

Is that with modern 11-speed components, like Ultegra? If so, that is truly remarkable (assuming you aren't replacing your chain every 300 miles). I'm lucky to get two seasons out of a cassette, and average 4 chains (in rotation). I've also had to replace an inner chainring after 2 years (before I started waxing).

WizardOfBoz

Respectfully, 1/16 inch is 0.0625 inches. 0.0625 inches divided by 12 inches is fractional 0.0052, which to convert to percentage we multiply by 100% to give 0.52%.

If you were using 0.0625% as your criteria,I just lowered your chain costs by a factor of 100!

Sounds like 3/32 is the 0.75% mark.

WizardOfBoz

BTW, the use of sand and water to create accelerated wear is consistent with other engineering testing methods. In testing plastic parts to failure, it is often the case that the part will last a really long time making the test impractical. What is done is to raise the temperature of the testing. Every 10°C or so doubles the rate of many chemical and some physical processes. In any case, we can use "time-temperature superposition" to be able to test the part at high temperature in a reasonable amount of time to predict what will happen at lower service temperatures.

That said, the accelerated wear in this test may not be a practical indicator of chain life if folks use a different lubricant, and/or clean their chains often, and/or don't ride in dirty or gritty or wet conditions. I'm a fair-weather road bike rider. Rarely do I ride on dusty roads. We read above that folks get (sometimes) 1000s of hours of life from their chains, not 160. If I was a NYC courier riding in all conditions with lots of road grit, and didn't to the maintenance on my company bike, the test might be very applicable. For me, not so much.

Frictional differences between chains are pretty small - about 1-2 watts, according the test cited below. Still, Shimano and Campy seemed to be signficantly (0.5 to 2 W) lower in friction.

https://cyclingtips.com/2019/12/the-...ncy-comparison

DrIsotope

I too get around 4 chains per cassette. Fifteen chains would be over 45,000 miles per cassette, and simply does not seem like a thing that could ever happen... for me.

The Zinn test is nice in that it confirms my bias, I've been using nothing but PC-1110 and FSA Team Issue for the past ~2.5 years, and have never paid more than $17 per chain.

Getting 6,000-7,000 out of each chain pair, and using an a basic formula of (total annual miles / annual* chain cost) x (total annual miles / total annual hours) = somewhere around 10¢ per hour, using my cheapo chains.

*I just replace the chainsets annually, even if the wear is a little low. Spitting mileage between two bikes, I don't get near wearing all four chains out in a typical 10,000 mile year, but the chains are cheap.

aplcr0331

I use the Dura Ace chains. Never measure, clean it about every 350-400 miles or so with a plastic thing that snaps on it, lube with Rock n Roll (I think) and then replace. I go about 2100-2300 miles per chain. Got about 4,500 miles out of my last cassette, just put it on the trainer since I got an 11/34 put on the bike there’s some life left in the cassette I’m sure.

Think I paid $32 for my last few DA chains. I love puting on a new chain. Just like I get new bar tape every year or even twice a year.

These tests are interesting and it’s cool to see how deep in the weeds people get into their chains.

Sy Reene

It's great how we can each find a test that provides confirmation bias.. hence I'll continue with a Chorus chain.. though wish the Potenza level had been included in the test.

DrIsotope

Every single test done by Connex shows that the chains made by Connex last the absolute longest... but they're so expensive, only the boutique chains like the KMC Diamond Coat cost more-- so the cost per mile never works out in their favor.

Beyond that test, I've used 3 Connex chains-- two in 10-speed and one in 11-speed. They last the exact same amount of miles as the sub-$20 chains.

The hardcore, obsessed with marginal gains are gonna run pre-broken in UFO chains and never think about the cost. I'm sitting here tracking consumables down to the dime, trying to minimize the annual financial burden of a hobby.

The only thing we know for sure is that the 12-speed dudes are gonna be soaking up the "early adopter tax" for a while.

DaveSSS 

The cheapest chain to buy is not always the cheapest to own. The cheap KMC x11.93 that I used for one season, along with a couple of Campy Chorus chains proved that it would wear more than twice as fast as a Campy chain. The wear was also true elongation, measured over the full chain length, not some short measurement like a chain checker would do. Using the short length measuring method with digital calipers, the chain had the 132.6mm length where Campy recommends to toss a chain, after only 800-1000 miles of use. The 132.6mm is 1mm longer than a new chain. The Campy chains with the same mileage measured only 0.2mm longer.