Sy Reene

I don't want to come off as naive, but since this stuff is watts/kg based, and it's all virtual, what's the point of these kinds of events where only women are allowed to join?

JustinOldPhart

I know what you said, but this is what I heard.

HeyItsSara

When I used to go on the Leaderboard at spin class, there was a designation by sex as well as overall. that's just the way it is.

Darth Lefty 

It’s the same point it always is

Sy Reene

Hmm.. but there is no such thing as a winner, loser, or leaderboard for a group ride or workout.. is there?

HeyItsSara

Sure there is! That's the point of the Board! Did you ever take a competitive Spin class?

billridesbikes

You are aware men and women are different? In general, a group of women will be slower than a group of men at the same w/kg. Women, being smaller and lighter than men have to put out higher w/kg to keep the same pace.

I believe women on Zwift earn ‘drops’ a little fast per watt too.

Sy Reene

Nothing I've seen in Zwift calls itself a competitive spin class.. but maybe I just haven't come across one?

Sure, but realize I'm not talking about races. I specifically referred to group rides and workouts (which are rubber-banded -- everyone stays together).
eg. Came across this group ride, and the women's distance (C-level) fit my timeframe for being available for a quick lunchtime ride, so was a tiny bit annoyed I couldn't join.
https://zwift.com/events/view/733435

And for workouts, which are rubber-banded, and solely based on FTP output (such as linked below); there is no competitiveness at all?
https://zwift.com/events/view/784562

surak

Umm, did you notice that there female-only events in almost every sport?

Besides a more even field of participants, there's also a side-benefit of excluding anonymous bozos treating Zwift like a night club, such as this creep I had the misfortune of riding with who wouldn't shut up going on about his watts while trying to pick up ladies in a mixed endurance (2.2-2.5 W/kg) ride that he couldn't even finish.

Sy Reene

You don't need an even field of participants for a rubber-banded workout, or really even for a group ride that has a 1-5 watt/kg description (that's just about everybody).

And while we're all on bikes pedaling, this is a video game. This is not an in-person sport.. How do you know that creep was really a guy? Actually, every identity and physical metrics are not verified by Zwift, so if someone's a creep, they'll figure out a way in anyway.

surak

​​​​​​Sure, because there are sooo many virtual macho avatars actually controlled by women. Trust no one unless you see their birth certificate and all medical records!
​​
​​​​You realize Zwift costs money, and the chances of impressing someone of the opposite sex without being able to put a "flattering" photo are severely reduced if you have to masquerade as a female? The math doesn't work out.
​​​​​​

mackgoo

Why not go for a ride rather than banter this about?

Cyclist0108

Fewer men.

clasher

Seems like there is a demand for women-only events. Just like there's a demand for women-only gyms. Cycling is probably overwhelming male anyway so I'm in favour of making it more accessible and less intimidating and if women-only rides are a way to do that I'm all for it. Same goes for slow people and new riders and whatever else there zwift events that cater to those crowds.

Sy Reene

I guess.. but as soon as you take just one of the protected class categories, and make special events just for them, I presume then we'll expect to see Zwift add rides for any other group that wants the same type of access, whether based on ethnicity, religion, nationality, other genders, race, etc. It doesn't make sense to me in a world of avatars built into a video-game interface, where there isn't even much communication aside from 3-word texts, but whatever...

ThermionicScott 

Maybe they just want a break from clueless dudes now and then.

clasher

oh no, other people might have their own rides too! I don’t have a problem with that, there’s already so many group rides and races to choose from, the more the merrier I say, and if it brings in different folks to cycling that might not check it out cos it they’d like to do so with others like them I think it’d be a great thing. My local cycling club has had women-only rides and it’s been encouraging more women to join he club and regular rides. Just because someone could lie and say they are trans isn’t a good reason to stop doing them.

If people really wanna lie about who they are to join a ride there’s not much to stop them but I imagine it’s not a huge problem compared to creeps and other harassment women put up with just to being online. Zwift should just ban them since that kind of trolling will end up spreading like a disease through online places. It’s worse than dudes switching genders to get QOMs on strava.

Sy Reene

I suppose, if there isn't a limit on how many events Zwift can host at a given time. I hunted around but was unsuccessful, trying to find out just how an organization or group gets an event put on Zwift's Events page?

Otherwise, I was pretty much just arguing against exclusivity in the non-competitive events; that is, anyone should be able to join any event. I'm still not fully grasping the "with others like them" appeal. Each person's sitting in their own living room, looking at video game avatars? Speaking for myself, other types of avatar appearances don't make me uncomfortable.

clasher

I dunno what's it's like to be the only gay kid at school, or the only girl on the hockey team, or anything like that but I don't see how an exclusive event really hurts anyone when it's not the only option. I don't think zwift is running out of event slots or anything, server space/time has scaled pretty good since the covid started. Being a white dude the cycling world is still mostly other white dudes, so it's hard for me to see what it'd be like for people that aren't white dudes. There are exclusive races on zwift for USAC people and other kinds of things like that already where they verify people's identities and get right serious about it. I don't think there's a need to go that far with a women's-only workout though. A lot of the regulars for all these rides are all on discord and know each other from voice chatting, facebook and strava, so there's another layer community that isn't really apparent just from looking at zwift.

Zwift's event page is really terrible, zwiftpower.com and zwifthacks.com both have much better event listings, I use the zwiftpower one since you find short or long ones, it lists the routes the event is on and you can customize a search and save it so you can click a button and find whatever you're looking for. I don't know how to create events on zwift but I gather that before the covid crisis various clubs/groups just worked directly with zwift hq to get these events/series created. There's stuff like DIRT and HERD that have all sorts of things going on constantly. Zwift rolled out the meet-ups which are kind of like self-planned events but not nearly as flexible or accessible beyond your own contacts right now. They are also apparently working on a clubs feature, so I guess in the future local cycling clubs and orgs and become virtual clubs and have their own events and control membership that way... or so it seems. I just joined zwift on account the covid and that's all I've heard/seen on various forums about it and I don't even know exactly how it all works yet.

Zwift also has a lot of other issues they need to tackle about the game, like some new worlds and UI that actually makes sense, so I wish they would focus a bit more on that over the summer than the clubs stuff, but they also don't have a lot of strong competition in the virtual cycling space yet so who knows what'll happen.

surak

I think you missed that there's in-game chat in Zwift. And many events will advertise a Discord channel.

Sy Reene

Yeah.. a chat text evidently goes to everyone within 500 meters of you? Seems pretty impersonal and usually folks just answering questions that the ride leader throws out. Personally, at least during a workout I don't have much interest in fumbling with a keyboard.
Neither example event I linked has Discord, though I have seen some events use this. To exist for the example group ride I linked, you'd need 3 separate discord links, otherwise the mixed groups would have been talking with the single-sex group anyway.

surak

Discord channels can be shared during the ride.

mstateglfr 

races- i understand grouping genders, sure. but at the same time, i havent come across 'men only' events.
group rides- i havent done one ever because i dont understand the appeal of riding virtually for fun with others. if there are women's only groups, ok then. if it gets people to exercise, then it sounds good to me.

i really dont have much passion on this one way or the other, but like i said- i dont understand using zwift as a social platform. it doesnt appeal to me in that way, but if it did and i were a woman, i guess i would want some women's events.

sdmc530

So I do get this.

Back last year maybe when I was ride on hunting to get my 100 ride on badge it was suggested to change my sex from male to female. so I did simply that. I also abbreviated my first name so it wasn't weird and obvious. I never rode a race or group ride or anything I just rode. I tell you what in about 3 rides I had the 100 ride on badge and my friend follow request probably went up 5X. No joke they troll the ladies on there like everyplace else. I was a bit shocked though I don't know why but on Zwift I though it wouldn't be like that. It so was. I got my badge and switched back to male. I had probably 40-60 max ride on hits before this but I was in 3 digits in about 3 days.

You can't do this anymore because you cant change sex on the game after you sign up. I can see why people would though, my wife would ride from time to time and share my account. Granted she still rides maybe 10-20 miles a month when I am on Zwift but not nearly enough for her to get her own account.


So I do understand the all ladies group rides.

unterhausen

the very fact that someone is asking the question actually answers the question. They don't want your company. Seems easy enough to understand. To be a woman online is a constant flood of unwanted advances and private messages. It has to be a relief to get away from that occasionally.

I am pretty sure you can just start your own event. So far I have only done one group ride, with randonneurs. It's fun. There is a setting where you all stay together, which is nice unless the intention is to have a drop-fest. Which also could be fun. One advantage to group rides is that the leader can use a location that's not on the general list, so there aren't many people on the route.