Vaporware (continued)
#76
out walking the earth
#77
Mr. Dopolina
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Taiwan
Posts: 10,217
Bikes: KUUPAS, Simpson VR
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 149 Post(s)
Liked 117 Times
in
41 Posts
Psimet has it right.
There are so many factors in bringing a product to market beyond the concept and even the engineering of a product that many truly great products never make it.
This is true in any industry.
It is also true, based on my experience, that the first generation to make it to market may not be the best one to buy. Off the top of my head I am thinking about the first generation DA STI, various boutique wheels, early carbon frames (Vitus anyone?) electronic shifting, Record carbon cranks, Sram missing tooth cassettes, MANY CnC cranks (like Kooka) and I could go on. This doesn't mean these didn't eventually become standards in the industry it's just harder than most people realize to design, produce and successfully market a new product.
Cut these guys some slack. They seem to be hard at work. They could have just as easily released stuff before it was cooked and let the hapless early adapters do their product testing for them. Lets hope that won't be the case and that this product will see the light of day whenever it is ready.
Until then you all have options so do what you need to and quite *****in'.
iCaddy you can continue *****in' because it seems like that is what gets you out of bed in the morning.
There are so many factors in bringing a product to market beyond the concept and even the engineering of a product that many truly great products never make it.
This is true in any industry.
It is also true, based on my experience, that the first generation to make it to market may not be the best one to buy. Off the top of my head I am thinking about the first generation DA STI, various boutique wheels, early carbon frames (Vitus anyone?) electronic shifting, Record carbon cranks, Sram missing tooth cassettes, MANY CnC cranks (like Kooka) and I could go on. This doesn't mean these didn't eventually become standards in the industry it's just harder than most people realize to design, produce and successfully market a new product.
Cut these guys some slack. They seem to be hard at work. They could have just as easily released stuff before it was cooked and let the hapless early adapters do their product testing for them. Lets hope that won't be the case and that this product will see the light of day whenever it is ready.
Until then you all have options so do what you need to and quite *****in'.
iCaddy you can continue *****in' because it seems like that is what gets you out of bed in the morning.
#78
out walking the earth
Incorrect.
Apple has a long track record of holding price (particularly on laptops) and bumping the memory, processor speed, etc. In other words they add value, but at the same price. That's a long standing practice with Apple. Price drops are very slow compared to other tech companies, that's how Apple sustains profitability in a business that is notorious for tight profit margins.
MacBook Pro prices have slowly edged down, but a 15" version still lists for $1700, 2-3x the price of a decent Windows machine (if there is such a thing).
But let's not let reality and simple facts stand in the way of a perfectly good 41 Flame Out.
Apple has a long track record of holding price (particularly on laptops) and bumping the memory, processor speed, etc. In other words they add value, but at the same price. That's a long standing practice with Apple. Price drops are very slow compared to other tech companies, that's how Apple sustains profitability in a business that is notorious for tight profit margins.
MacBook Pro prices have slowly edged down, but a 15" version still lists for $1700, 2-3x the price of a decent Windows machine (if there is such a thing).
But let's not let reality and simple facts stand in the way of a perfectly good 41 Flame Out.
Bull****. Look at the history of just the iPhone.
#80
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Same here. Although you do get great build quality with Apple. I recently bought a new laptop, a Thinkpad- a big part of my decision was the build quality of the machine. It sucks shelling out > $500 for something that feels like it was made from recycled milk jugs and cardboard.
#81
Junk Mile Junkie
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Webster, NY
Posts: 6,465
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I think there are too many variables that they can't overcome.
If I have my shoe shimmed so that it presses on the inside of the pedal, that is going to flex the shaft differently than if I have it shimmed to press on the outside. Will I have to buy one for each type of shaft? CM, stainless, and Ti will all flex differently. And as asked earlier, how do you account for flex without drive torque?
If I have my shoe shimmed so that it presses on the inside of the pedal, that is going to flex the shaft differently than if I have it shimmed to press on the outside. Will I have to buy one for each type of shaft? CM, stainless, and Ti will all flex differently. And as asked earlier, how do you account for flex without drive torque?
#83
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 3,215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I think there are too many variables that they can't overcome.
If I have my shoe shimmed so that it presses on the inside of the pedal, that is going to flex the shaft differently than if I have it shimmed to press on the outside. Will I have to buy one for each type of shaft? CM, stainless, and Ti will all flex differently. And as asked earlier, how do you account for flex without drive torque?
If I have my shoe shimmed so that it presses on the inside of the pedal, that is going to flex the shaft differently than if I have it shimmed to press on the outside. Will I have to buy one for each type of shaft? CM, stainless, and Ti will all flex differently. And as asked earlier, how do you account for flex without drive torque?
ETA: It's going to be integrated with the spindle. They'll know what material the spindle is made of.
Last edited by wens; 05-07-10 at 09:35 AM.
#84
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Waldorf Md.
Posts: 2,045
Bikes: Cannondale Six Carbon 5 and Gary Fisher Wahoo
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Looks like the best F1 time is 5:58. https://www.roadandtrack.com/racing/h...the_green_hell And it sounds like if an F1 team set out to beat that time, with appropriate tires and gear ratios, they could do better than that.
#85
stole your bike
#86
Junk Mile Junkie
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Webster, NY
Posts: 6,465
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Having machined various metals for the last 30 years, I just don't see how this is going to work. Machining any metal stresses it. The cutting conditions determine the stress added. Stressed metals behave differently based on how much they are stressed. You can work harden parts just through machining.
When machining batches of parts, we can't even rely on the material coming in to be consistent. When sending machined parts out to be hardened or stress relieved, we can't be sure how they will move.
When relying on such small amounts of flex to measure power, I don't see how they will be able to control the quality of the product it is going in to a close enough spec to create accurate results. Maybe each person will have to calibrate it, but how, or to what?
When machining batches of parts, we can't even rely on the material coming in to be consistent. When sending machined parts out to be hardened or stress relieved, we can't be sure how they will move.
When relying on such small amounts of flex to measure power, I don't see how they will be able to control the quality of the product it is going in to a close enough spec to create accurate results. Maybe each person will have to calibrate it, but how, or to what?
#87
Certifiable Bike "Expert"
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,647
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I think there are too many variables that they can't overcome.
If I have my shoe shimmed so that it presses on the inside of the pedal, that is going to flex the shaft differently than if I have it shimmed to press on the outside. Will I have to buy one for each type of shaft? CM, stainless, and Ti will all flex differently. And as asked earlier, how do you account for flex without drive torque?
If I have my shoe shimmed so that it presses on the inside of the pedal, that is going to flex the shaft differently than if I have it shimmed to press on the outside. Will I have to buy one for each type of shaft? CM, stainless, and Ti will all flex differently. And as asked earlier, how do you account for flex without drive torque?
2) If you're standing up and stretching (while softpedaling)... since you know the direction of the pedal force, you know the positive torque from one leg and negative torque from the other leg. You add them up for a net torque of zero. (I always wondered how Ergomo dealt with this, by the way. Not very well, I guess lol)
Likes For NickDavid:
#89
Making a kilometer blurry
You go on believing I don't know wtf I'm talking about though in your "the 100th tablet in the world is revolutionary" world
Likes For waterrockets:
#90
Making a kilometer blurry
Yeah, the stresses measured are directional. They know what the radial and tangential components are to the forces. A friend here at work saw the demo in Vegas and he pushed on the pedals, watching the graph change. The pedals system absolutely knows what's going on.
Likes For AMFJ:
#92
I eat carbide.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 21,627
Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1325 Post(s)
Liked 1,306 Times
in
560 Posts
By the time they hit it big I might be able to be a dealer of theirs....
__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels
#93
Junk Mile Junkie
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Webster, NY
Posts: 6,465
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Ok, just went back to their site. I forgot about the external part that tells it where you are in the stroke. And I see they will be sold with the pedal, pre calibrated. Stainless. Not liking that the unit has to be recharged all the time, max of 20 hours so far.
#95
Certifiable Bike "Expert"
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,647
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#96
I eat carbide.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 21,627
Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1325 Post(s)
Liked 1,306 Times
in
560 Posts
I derive some of my income from the cycling industry. That implies I will never be able to retire and that I will suffer a heart attack sometime in my 60's anyway.
__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels
#98
Pointy Helmet Tribe
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Offthebackistan
Posts: 4,338
Bikes: R5, Allez Sprint, Shiv
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 519 Post(s)
Liked 627 Times
in
295 Posts
Calling the iPad 'a bigger iPhone' is like calling an F1 car 'a faster Corvette'. I do find all these pronouncements about the iPad from people that have no experience with the device rather amusing. If you don't think it's a revolutionary product, take one home for a couple of weeks. It is indeed, and this will be revealed to you. At some point.
#99
Burning Matches.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 9,714
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4076 Post(s)
Liked 1,002 Times
in
676 Posts
First off, the times I posted showed the Corvette slower. 2nd, those were actual times, but it turned out the F1 had been de-tuned for safety reasons. 3rd, there are courses where your Acura would destroy an F1 car.
You go on believing I don't know wtf I'm talking about though in your "the 100th tablet in the world is revolutionary" world
You go on believing I don't know wtf I'm talking about though in your "the 100th tablet in the world is revolutionary" world
__________________
ElJamoquio didn't hate the world, per se; he was just constantly disappointed by humanity.