HMF

I've been working on force by doing Force Reps (as Friel describes them) once per week. My only problem is that I don't feel like they're doing anything because I don't feel sore the next day or like I even did anything hard at all.

This morning, I went out and did 5 sets of 4 reps on a steep hill nearby (ea. rep is 12 revolutions of the crank at max power with cadence around 50rpm). 2 min rest between intervals, 4 min rest between sets. It took about a 1.5 hours and started to get boring towards the end.

I'd appreciate any insight you guys may have regarding building force. Is this the right route? Would weight training be a better use of time? What about going longer with a slightly higher cadence?

YMCA

What's the purpose? Are you training for the velodrome?
I see no reason for stomps, or Force Reps or whatever else coaches may throw out there.
Going uphill on a gear a bit too big is good enough for a road/crit racer

HMF

I want to increase my jump and sprint power. I tend to get dropped on the short steep climbs but I catch up the longer climbs or if the climb is late in a race. Makes sense, as I spent virtually all of my training time last year working on FTP and endurance. Also, crits are so common around here that my lack of power is also a limiter in the in the races most available to me.

SalsaPodio

Whenever I've done specific force training it's been 3 min at VO2 max power around 50 rpms. Do a couple of those and it really hurts.

mollusk

I disagree. Having a good "jump" (but not so good that it can be the winning sprint) gets a gap if you are in a crowd that is alert on the road. If you can then follow it up with "the $h1t" it can be a winning move. This can be a winning strategy for those that don't possess the classical sprinter's abilities.

Brian Ratliff

My first impression is you are doing too many reps on too little rest, which means you aren't doing them hard enough. This isn't an endurance workout.

EDIT:
Also, he has his riders doing this on a 5-8% slope in a 53/14 or so, such that the max (not average) RPM is 50rpm. We do this type of overgear workout as part of sprint workouts on the track. Rest intervals are open ended, which means you sit around until you feel like you can get it up to do another one. If it's less than 5 minutes, you've not gone hard enough.

HMF

Well, on each set I basically took it to the point where I couldn't turn the crank over in anymore without tipping over, which happened to be 12 revolutions. The grade was between 9 and 14%
When doing squats I usually only take 2 minutes rest in between sets, at most. That's pretty normal for gym workouts, right? I figured it should be the same on the bike. The reason I did 20 sets is because the last time I did this I did 3 sets of 3 reps like Friel proposed and I felt like that wasn't enough work.

Interestingly, in his book he doesn't make any mention of Force Reps, just hill climbs.

Brian Ratliff

^^^
Like I said though, if the workout isn't hard, then make it harder. The whole point of "force training" is you do them with enough explosive power that 3-9 reps feels like a day. Believe you me, it is a different mindset than most roadie workouts. It was something I had to get over when I switched from a road racing/cross team to a track team towards the end of last season. It was like I wasn't getting my money's worth with a ride where we go back and forth on a 1/2 mile stretch of flat road with a big hump in it for an hour. The solution is to get out of the "money's worth" mindset and start sprinting harder.

HMF

thanks for the advice. I'll try to rip the bars off next time.

UC223

Something i noticed above, if you are doing this on a 14% grade, it might be too steep to achieve some spin up. If you do these on a 6-8% grade. Get into a 53/14 gear, slow to a crawl, then go to max effort for 12 revolutions.. you might get to 50rpm +/-. If done correctly, you should feel this in your legs, arms and across the shoulders.

efficiency

If you are getting dropped on steep climbs, it is not strictly a force issue. Those climbs ask a lot of your anaerobic energy systems. If you can find a climb of the same length and steepness that you tend to get dropped on, do hill repeats on it almost as hard as you can, with long recoveries in between efforts.

veloboy971

+1, I'd say anerobic intervals and out of saddle sprints up hills would be the best way to solve this problem as it's likely a combination of low anaerobic power and lack of muscular adaptation to out of saddle climbing

fordfasterr

this.


peak power is very low compared to a "sprinter" ... thus, I attack early = win!