davei1980

I am not a geometry geek but I think MTB w/ drops = oversimplification and not very accurate.

I think a more accurate comparison is a stretched CX race bike or a touring bike with maybe a simpler drivetrain and gravel tires.

The rise in popularity is easy to understand: most riders don't benefit from a race-centric road bike. "Gravel bikes" are an awesome compromise for folks who want to go fast but don't want to be lost if they hit a dirt road and don't want to totally give up and get a hybrid.

I am just kinda high on gravel bikes as I just finished building up this beautiful 1x10 miss-matched beast!

ThermionicScott 

Almost certainly true.

Also true.

RubeRad

I commute on a CrossCheck (which I bought in 2012 as a frameset and built up). If Straggler had existed then (and was available in a color other than sparklepony purple) I would have gone that way

No idea about the future (or present) of CrossCheck though, but given technology now, I would not buy new any rim-brake, QR bike

davei1980

Not to get too far off track but would someone please educate me on the advantages of thru-axles VS QR? (See signature block)

Rim brake vs Disc - I am good there - days of reading on BF alone on that topic

RubeRad

Maybe I'm clumsy, but I have multiple times mangled the conical spring in the QR, because of frequent on/off due to having to take the front wheel off to toss the bike in the back of the minivan. And putting it back on (over lawyer lips) is a 3-handed operation, two hands to get both sides of the QR to the right clamping tension, while a third hand holds the bike perfectly upright -- else the QR clamps the bike not all the way in both dropouts so the wheel is crooked in the brakes.

Add to that, if your bike has disk brakes, then the forces involved tend to loosen a QR, so you have to check it each ride. (And in my case, mangling the QR spring interfered with the way the wheel went in, moving things just that much so the disc brake squealed like the dickens)

When I got a mtb with a front thru-axle, I thought it was awesome. Bulletproof wheel re-insertion, no fiddling with clamping tension, just screw it in, flip the lever. Identical wheel/disc brake position every time.

Things did improve on my CC after I filed off the lawer lips, now the QR is actually a Quick Release. I can drop the wheel out, don't mess with the QR, and put it back in, same clamping pressure.

ThermionicScott 

Thru-axles are a Very Good Idea on bikes with disc brakes. With discs, braking force is at the hub, and has been known to eject front wheels with QRs. You don't have "drop-outs" in the old sense with thru-axles -- the axle is completely encircled by the frame, so wheel ejection is impossible.

Given that a large number of cyclists will never figure out how to use a QR properly, thru-axles are probably a long-deferred safety improvement overall. I'll wait until my rim-brake/quick-release bikes wear out before venturing into that stuff though.

MEversbergII

Cheers; how do those compare to the "Clix" type skewers, which I thought accomplished something similar (while still having drop outs)?

RubeRad

never heard of those, saw a quick vid on utub, looks like they would make use of QR more convenient. Wouldn't solve the disc-brake loosening/ejection issue though.

katsup

The only issue I've had with QR and discs is making sure the wheel is centered so the rotor doesn't rub the brakes. This only happens when removing the wheels. Ironically, I've also had rotor brake rub with my thru axle mountain bike when removing the front wheel.

A downsize of thru axle would be cross threading or losing the axle and having to find a replacement in the exact size.

RubeRad

that's true. QR are very universal, but as I understand it thru axles are specific to each fork, and spendy to replace, like 40-50 bucks

pdlamb

Since we're in the commuting forum, and most of my flats have occurred during a commute, how does the time to get a wheel off a through axle setup and replace it after the flat's fixed compare to what it takes for a QR (i.e., 30 seconds or less)?

davei1980

I am living in the past, evidently. I am currently converting all my QR to nutted axles

RubeRad

I'd say if your lawyer lips are filed off, the time would be the same. If you have lawyer lips that require maybe a couple tries how tight to make the QR when you put it back on, then thru-axle might be faster by that much.

Darth Lefty 

Thru axles arrived first on the front of mountain bikes, specifically heavy duty ones like free-ride. They were 20mm and in addition to preventing ejection they also supported a lot burlier bearings. The smaller ones came later as they proliferated. At the rear I think the main attraction is that they make everything line up every time, a QR can be a little off and screw up shifting. They're still not dominant at $1000 and below... my most recent bike came with a "QR141" hub.

A lot of the recent mountain bike stuff all plays well together and is just a totally different mode of operation. Got tubeless tires? You are very seldom going to get flats, and maybe you can plug them, unless the damage is pretty bad, in which case you are going to be stopping for a while anyhow to empty your pack to wrestle with your very tight bead, see if you can patch it from the inside or if the spare tube that's been in the bottom of your pack for two years is still any good. By that light, busting out the multi tool to remove the axle is not a big deal, you don't really need a QR. And you aren't going to lose it in the grass like a nut. If you are racing, no one is going to drive up behind you and give you a spare wheel. There's no peloton to catch and you've already lost the stage by stopping to repair, so your goal is just to finish. The bike is huge so you don't take it apart to carry it inside your car, you carry it on a hitch rack or draped over the tailgate. That said, there are quick-release through axle solutions... Suntour makes one for their forks that's really clever and iirc Mavic has one as well.

RubeRad

Note CC has a very long rear dropout, which allows to tune your desired wheelbase within 2cm or so, and you have to make sure the wheel is centered when you clamp the QR. With a thru-axle you'd never have to worry about centering, but then again you wouldn't be able to choose how far back you want your wheel.

Darth Lefty 

This is Surly we are talking about. If they even do change it, it will be to something clever and adaptable. Their current mountain bikes will do QR or TA, boost or not, solidly positioned all the way forward or sliding with a tug nut

grolby

Edit: shoulda read the whole thread before I just repeated what everyone else was saying!

I am not new to the market, and an “enthusiast,” and I warn anyone I can to avoid the Cross-Check for this reason. It’s not enough to say it isn’t competitively specced. It’s not in the same zip code. There are apparently some idiosyncratic customers who are willing to pay more for a bike with bar end shifters, cantilever brakes, and heavy steel frame and fork. But for most, it’s hard to make a compelling case for the Cross-Check when there are options sitting right next to it on the shop floor with light frames and forks (that ride better!), disc brakes and integrated shifters, in many cases for significantly less money. This segment has become insanely competitive over the last five years, and the Cross-Check has been frozen in amber during that period. And it’s not like it was starting ahead. It’s really a bike from a different era.

What any of that has to do with the shortage of Cross-Check Completes, I don’t know. Maybe nothing. It might just be a supply problem, given the way the bike is specced out there are a couple parts you can imagine grinding the whole operation to a halt if they become unavailable because the bike would need to be totally re-specified. But whatever the case, surely Surly can’t keep selling it as it is forever.