MZilliox

Hello,

I am hoping to find out a rough value for a bike such as this one. I am considering acquiring this bike but don't want to pay too too much.



specs go something like this: Frame material is Deda Com 12.5 / zero uno
Centre of Bottom Bracket to where Seatpost enters frame = 55cm (frame effectively 54cm)
Top Tube - Centre to Centre = 54cm
Stem 70mm - Very Short
Crankset TA Specialites 26-38-46
Crank Length 162.5mm - Quite short. I normally ride 170mm cranks and didn’t know the difference. Quite surprised myself at that one!
Gears Sachs Cranks 7 Speed Triple - Will count the cogs but looks like a 14-24 or thereabouts.
Rear Mech - Sachs New Success
Front Mech - Suntour Superbe Pro
Brifters- Sachs New Success
Wheels = Rear Sachs New Success on Mvic Sup Ceramic. Front is a Mavic 571 Hub on the same rim.
Seatpost - A Mavic 26.4mm seatpost - still available but typically french - have to be a bit different!
Headset = Stronglight
Fenders = GB of Course and rock solid and I mean rock solid.
There are braze on’s for a rear rack but the Velo Orange constructer type - i.e. attaches to frame and there are two receivers on the rear rack that steady the rack

any clues here? Ive been doing searches for 2 days. If I could speak French maybe I'd learn a bit more.

any ideas on original sales prices or potential used prices? I'm just not very familiar with this type of bike, and configuration.

Thanks to all

bargainguy

Gilles Berthoud is a French manufacturer of leather bicycle accessories - saddles, bags and the like - as far as I know. Never seen their name on a frame before, which makes me suspect...

...that this might be a different framebuilder's work done under contract with the GB name slapped on.

Mike Kone at Boulder Bicycles might know. His outfit brought the rights to the Rene Herse (French) bikes awhile back and produced them here in the US for a short time. Anything French, he would be the guy.

MZilliox

I have seen a few of these bikes in existence on the web, and seen literature mentioning Gilles Berthoud as a frame builder. I can find references to these bikes, including this FS post from Jan Heine, a Gilles Berthoud

https://search.bikelist.org/getmsg.as...10408.0026.eml

I hope this is appropriate for this list:

I am selling a brand-new Gilles Berthoud Randonneur frame/fork/rack/fenders.

Size: 58 cm (c-t) with 57 cm (c-c) top tube

Type: Epervier, their top-of-the-line frame made from top-of-the-line
superlight Dedaccai steel tubing. Fillet-brazed by hand, designed to
build into a 20lb. randonneur bike (including fenders and rack) with
the latest Campy or Shimano components (but could use older
components, too). All braze-ons for front rack and carbon fenders.

Geometry is randonneuring-specific, designed to ride long distances
fast and fatigue-free.

Rack: Custom front rack from tubular steel, special type to
accommodate Dual Pivot brakes. With light mount.

Fenders: Berthoud carbon. The frame has braze-ons for these, making
installation easy and elegant.

Color: Green

To make a long story short, I ended up with the frame because the
original buyer backed out of the deal. The frame is brand-new, but
was damaged very slightly in shipping. The damage is minor: 2 small
scratches (downtube, seat stay) that have been touched up with the
original paint, a very minor dent in the down tube (this is thin
tubing!), barely noticeable, plus one of the downtube decals is
scratched. A new decal can be provided, if desired.

The damage does not affect the ride or lifespan of the frame in any
way. It is typical of what your bike will suffer during a year or two
of riding.

I'd keep the bike for myself, but I really don't need yet another
bike. As a truly modern randonneur bike, this is a unique
opportunity, because usually these don't come over here. And even in
France, they are hard to get (we waited 2 years for this one).

I am selling the complete kit (frame, fork, rack, carbon fenders) for
about 50% of its new price: $ 1075. (The carbon fenders alone retail
for at least $ 150.)

If interested, the frame is on display at Il Vecchio's in Leschi, 140
Lakeside Ave, 324-8148.

Also, if a complete bike is desired, that can be arranged.

Jan Heine
297-1199

MZilliox

So i am thinking he legitimately builds frames, I have just never heard of them until now.

gomango

I've thought about it all weekend and still don't have a lot to go on.

Sorry.

Is the seller asking you to set an offer before they come up with a price?

MZilliox

Oh no need to be sorry, There doesn't seem to be much out there, I just figured I'd post and see whats what.

we have a price we have talked about and are working out the details there based on shipping and a few other things. I think it a fair price, but I wanted to see if anyone had feedback to see if I'm way off base.

Flog00

Gilles Berthoud 700C Randonneur Touring Bicycle | eBay

$400-600 would be my price range if I were buying.

Tim_Iowa

FYI, the Sachs New Success gruppo was excellent. The brifters and crank are made by Campagnolo, and are Record quality. Sachs made the derailers, freewheels, cogs, etc.

MZilliox

Thanks Tim,
I have been reading about the Sachs stuff, guys seem to really like it. The TA cranks have a good rep and are not so difficult to find still. I also find it very attractive when compared to our shimano sram and campy. Fillet brazed diadace steel with internally routed cables. Integrated frame and fenders, a $200 saddle, a paint job that has held up despite obvious wear to the group, and French flair you don't often see on American bicycles. all signs point at this being quite a high end bicycle.

wow 400-600? that would be a very good deal I bet. I appreciate the input, but i have a feeling it will have to be a bit higher than that to get the sale done. it is a good figure to keep in mind though. you posted a bike that sold for 1k, so you think this bike is worth half that bike? Im only trying to get as much info as possible to finalize the sale. neither of us are in a hurry, im just trying to be informed about a rare bike.

thanks for the input everyone, it helps my confidence in the sales process.

Flog00

Flog00

What saddle is on the bike?

The frame is beautiful. After seeing the other photos I'd likely pay $600+ for the frame/fork/fenders/rack.
The frame deserves components in better condition IMO!

MZilliox

i agree with that assessment. It does need some new shiny components but I will look to keep it Sachs New Success/TA/Stronglight. rear mech looks fine, its mainly the cranks and FD and chainrings. Who knows, a nice mineral spirits bath and some elbow grease could get rid of most the rust and grime.

where did the other pics come from? did i put them in another post or from gomango?

saddle is Reydel GTI.

I have agreed to purchase the bike. we are working out details and trying to find the cheapest way to get it here now.

Flog00

I came across the other pictures on photobucket in a search.

gomango

Not the culprit this time.

Neat bike that needs to be cleaned within an inch of its life.

Congrats on the purchase.

I hadn't noticed before, but are there any issues with the stem?

Is that just grease?

MZilliox

yes, there is an issue with the stem, but that was made aware. Its scratched up and the bike could really use a new stem, and I happen to have a couple around that may work, though french bikes may have different stem diameter, we will find out though.

bikemig 

You might try writing to Wallingford Bikes. The OW is a big Berthoud dealer and owns, I believe, a custom Berthoud bike.

MZilliox

I will look them up and see what i can find, thanks for the info.

FastJake

Cool bike. Beautiful frame. The Sachs parts are interesting and I really like the hidden-bolt crank. 105 brake calipers are an odd choice. It appears well used but some of the stuff might clean up nice.

If you want it, go for it. Pay what you think is fair. It's such an oddball I think any price is going to be +/- $200 depending on how much you want it and how much the seller wants to get rid of it.

MZilliox

small update,
seller took the bike to his favorite shop and they had a look at the stem. it was indeed a modern 22.2mm stem with a poor sanding job to fit into the French 22mm head. the shop is going to clean the stem and finish sanding and polishing so it fits for now. They are also dismantling the bike and cleaning it up, paying particular attention to the crank, chain, and cassette. they will then box it up to be shipped.

gomango

Cleaning it to ship is fine,but I wouldn't worry much about replacing a chain or a cassette.

If they are worn I would jettison those promptly and put on new ones.

Are the valleys in the crank decent?

Flog00

I really would like to see some detailed photos of the frame....

MZilliox

I have a few more photos besides what was on photobucket, but not many. When the bike is in my possession, I will take a lot of photos. something in particular you want to see? I'll post a couple more, but none of the photos are great.



In terms of replacing chain and cassette, probably sooner rather than later. we will see what the cranks look like when it arrives, so far, i have the same pictures you see to make judgement. the bike in general will not be neglected. whatever needs to be updated or replaced to make it sparkle or to better fit the feel of the bike (like replacing shimano 105 front brake) will be done. If NOS stronglight or TA crank is needed, it will be found. This is gonna be my baby if she fits. Part of the fun will be searching for the right specs

Flog00

Yeah, would be great if you share lots of pictures as you make it your own.

Wilfred Laurier

That is an astonishingly beautiful bike. Unfortunate that it has French standard headset. Hopefully the BB is English, but not too big a deal I suppose if it isn't.

himespau 

Interesting that there were still french threaded bikes being made in 2000 if that dating is accurate.