Disc brakes in road racing
01-09-16, 05:29 PM
#101
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Tubulars with supple casing require less tread on the sidewall as the tire complies and tread stays in contact. Same tire case in a clincher the contact area rolls more to the side. Vittoria and Veloflex make the same tire/case/tread in both clincher and tubular. I think Conti and others do too, I just have the V&V.
A clincher has a fair amount of air volume between the rime, while all of the tubular's is outside the rim. This also makes direct comparison difficult. We found this tread works fine on this tubular, but I wouldn't use it for a clincher.
Last edited by Doge; 01-09-16 at 05:38 PM.
01-09-16, 06:29 PM
#102
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I just found this thread. What a clusterflock.
Just look at WC CX. There are courses (wet, muddy, slick) where the pros choose disc. There are others (dry, fast, smooth) where pros choose cantis. At this point in their evolution, I don't see this changing. Don't forget these guys don't have neutral support, and they don't change wheels in races.
Discs on road bikes are a solution looking for a problem. With the proper wheel/pad setup, rim brakes work fine for road racing, and have worked fine since the evolution of the carbon rim. Adoption at the grassroots racing level is dependent on standardization, and we know how well component manufacturers love standardization. Time will tell.
Just look at WC CX. There are courses (wet, muddy, slick) where the pros choose disc. There are others (dry, fast, smooth) where pros choose cantis. At this point in their evolution, I don't see this changing. Don't forget these guys don't have neutral support, and they don't change wheels in races.
Discs on road bikes are a solution looking for a problem. With the proper wheel/pad setup, rim brakes work fine for road racing, and have worked fine since the evolution of the carbon rim. Adoption at the grassroots racing level is dependent on standardization, and we know how well component manufacturers love standardization. Time will tell.
01-09-16, 06:37 PM
#104
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01-09-16, 07:10 PM
#105
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Glad you agree it is potentially dangerous to slow in a way others have to brake behind you. The danger is based on the ability of the rider behind to stop. It has nothing to do with the intent of the rider in front. So if the front rider has better brakes and uses them - the result is the same.
This argument is not mine. It is one of the reasons there is concern about mixing braking types. I'd rather they just not have road races through mud and then there wouldn't be much of an issue.
This argument is not mine. It is one of the reasons there is concern about mixing braking types. I'd rather they just not have road races through mud and then there wouldn't be much of an issue.
01-09-16, 07:29 PM
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I am open to discuss anything..
I am a snowboard instructor too... what do you want to talk about snowboards?
Sorry if you got offended by my personal view point. I just don't see Road Bicycles as fast vehicles that can rail. If you want to see it that way, you are free to do so and I am NOT going to convince you otherwise.
Please Discuss....
01-09-16, 07:36 PM
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I was discussing ability of discs vs rims in "bad" weather to stop better and likening it to any time that happens. Those examples were deemed inappropriate, so no examples.
I also mentioned I didn't invent that argument / discussion.
This part has nothing to do with disc brakes. I didn't post it.:
I also mentioned I didn't invent that argument / discussion.
This part has nothing to do with disc brakes. I didn't post it.:
01-09-16, 07:55 PM
#110
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About a year ago I mentioned a cornering technique of slowing in the corner to then create a gap because everyone else had to slow or brake and then the rider could get a gap to sprint.
It was considered dangerous by most.
Wouldn't the result be the same disc riders mixed with rim riders if all the claims are correct ?
It was considered dangerous by most.
Wouldn't the result be the same disc riders mixed with rim riders if all the claims are correct ?
I was discussing ability of discs vs rims in "bad" weather to stop better and likening it to any time that happens. Those examples were deemed inappropriate, so no examples.
I also mentioned I didn't invent that argument / discussion.
This part has nothing to do with disc brakes. I didn't post it.:
I also mentioned I didn't invent that argument / discussion.
This part has nothing to do with disc brakes. I didn't post it.:
01-09-16, 09:04 PM
#113
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doge wins in doge vs. CH
primarily because he said "racers don't need the latest and greatest" or whatever while making his kid race on tires of off-brand kleenex. that's moxy.
primarily because he said "racers don't need the latest and greatest" or whatever while making his kid race on tires of off-brand kleenex. that's moxy.
01-10-16, 01:08 AM
#115
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In 2010 there was rule 1M1 being voted on by USAC for juniors.
-No tubulars
-No carbon
-16 spokes
Partial text from an email I sent:
...
If the goal is a “standard bike” then I’m all for that, and would encourage USCycling to roll out a comprehensive specification on all areas of the bike from material to shape of tubes and weight so we parents aren’t buy things our kids can’t use in a few years. If that is the case, please also consider that for economic reasons it makes a lot of sense to use the same bike for track, road, xcross.
01-10-16, 07:53 AM
#116
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Not sure I agree with any of that.
Hydraulic brake bleeding is a piece of cake. Takes 10min per wheel, and I don't do it particularly often.
Also, thru axles aren't any slower than QRs; I'd argue they are probably faster. And, rotor rub with a thru axle only occurs if something physically bends the rotor. Like, a large rock, a log, etc. Looking at the geometry of my 160mm rotor, a disc wheel + tire, and the fork, the only way a rotor would make contact with any foreign object besides a brake pad is if the rider crashed unto an object that protruded from the ground. Meaning, there is a clear "line of sight" between the rotor and the outside of the lever. With 140mm rotors, you'd have even more clearance.
Hydraulic brake bleeding is a piece of cake. Takes 10min per wheel, and I don't do it particularly often.
Also, thru axles aren't any slower than QRs; I'd argue they are probably faster. And, rotor rub with a thru axle only occurs if something physically bends the rotor. Like, a large rock, a log, etc. Looking at the geometry of my 160mm rotor, a disc wheel + tire, and the fork, the only way a rotor would make contact with any foreign object besides a brake pad is if the rider crashed unto an object that protruded from the ground. Meaning, there is a clear "line of sight" between the rotor and the outside of the lever. With 140mm rotors, you'd have even more clearance.
09-06-16, 09:44 PM
#117
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My friend's disc...
BigDiscPensyresRear.jpg
BigDiscPensyresRear.jpg
09-07-16, 09:48 AM
#119
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In case you hadn't read this:
UCI not planning to resume disc brake trials anytime soon - BikeRadar USA
Is the above a tandem?
UCI not planning to resume disc brake trials anytime soon - BikeRadar USA
Is the above a tandem?
09-07-16, 03:21 PM
#123
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Yes. A Carbon/Ti - very light. I was visiting and saw it in his garage yesterday and thought would post...
He reminded me of when I road with his son-in-law up Palomar on the tandem. I had Campy Delta rim brakes for the decent. I guess I just didn't brake much then.
I spent the weekend for the first time with modern discs for son's 1st MTB race - and putting bike in trunk more than once. They do take some getting used to (for both of us) and glad there was no wheel change.
Semi wrong thread I know, but posted for the disc...
JimsTandem.jpg
He reminded me of when I road with his son-in-law up Palomar on the tandem. I had Campy Delta rim brakes for the decent. I guess I just didn't brake much then.
I spent the weekend for the first time with modern discs for son's 1st MTB race - and putting bike in trunk more than once. They do take some getting used to (for both of us) and glad there was no wheel change.
Semi wrong thread I know, but posted for the disc...
JimsTandem.jpg
Last edited by Doge; 09-07-16 at 07:41 PM.
09-08-16, 08:45 PM
#124
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2009 Berkley Team Time Trial Photo by Anderson
I used the disc brake once on the descent to brake for the right hand turn that starts the series of climbs.
Disc brakes on tandems, even the 10 inch brake on Santana are not designed to be used as a drag brake. The rotor overheats and the pads outgas such that braking power is lost. Contrast that to blowing the front tire off of a tandem on a mountain descent due to overheating the rims by rim brake pressure.
In 2013, we climbed Mount Ventoux with Santana Tandem Tours as part of a tour of France and Switzerland but elected to use our road bikes versus our tandem. On the ride, 33 tandems climbed Mount Ventoux and 6 destroyed their disc brakes on the descent due to overheating. Those that did not, alternated between the front and back brake and pulled over to let the brakes cool. It was not feasible to not brake on the Mount Ventoux descent. Tandem speeds would have been too great.
Descending road bikes on Ventoux alternating front and rear brakes was not a problem. We did stop to get rid of clothes as it was in the low 60s at the top and 102 halfway down the mountain.
Discs brakes make sense for cross and mountain bike but road racing seems like a stretch but hey whatever floats your boat.
I used the disc brake once on the descent to brake for the right hand turn that starts the series of climbs.
Disc brakes on tandems, even the 10 inch brake on Santana are not designed to be used as a drag brake. The rotor overheats and the pads outgas such that braking power is lost. Contrast that to blowing the front tire off of a tandem on a mountain descent due to overheating the rims by rim brake pressure.
In 2013, we climbed Mount Ventoux with Santana Tandem Tours as part of a tour of France and Switzerland but elected to use our road bikes versus our tandem. On the ride, 33 tandems climbed Mount Ventoux and 6 destroyed their disc brakes on the descent due to overheating. Those that did not, alternated between the front and back brake and pulled over to let the brakes cool. It was not feasible to not brake on the Mount Ventoux descent. Tandem speeds would have been too great.
Descending road bikes on Ventoux alternating front and rear brakes was not a problem. We did stop to get rid of clothes as it was in the low 60s at the top and 102 halfway down the mountain.
Discs brakes make sense for cross and mountain bike but road racing seems like a stretch but hey whatever floats your boat.
09-09-16, 07:36 PM
#125
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We did Everest Challenge in the Sierras on a tandem with Dura Ace Calipers. Never felt any need for discs.
It comes down to how you brake and how aggressive you ride.
Good calipers have all the stopping power you need for a tandem. The issue is heat. If you descend slowly, limiting speed, discs on a tandem may be a good idea.
If you let the bike roll braking only for corners, not necessary.
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You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
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You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
