jacobwatkins

Hey Everyone

I was recently given a bike from a friend who told me the bike wasn't worth much. However after doing a bit of research myself I'm finding clues that would say otherwise.

I have an Italian Legnano that I believe is from the early 60s. I really don't know a lot about vintage bikes, but from what I gather this brand wasn't widely popular. It was a racing bike brand popular back then, but hasn't had much attention since the 1970s or 80s. Looking up the serial number on a few different websites dates the bike around the early 60s.

Here is a video slideshow with the pictures I took today: youtu.be/NicgnEW3tGM

Can anyone tell me more about this bike and the ballpark on how much it's worth?

randyjawa 

Based on what the pictures reveal, you have, what might be, a sixties something Legnano Grand Premio. The Grand Premio was second from their top of the line offering. I say might be because the pictures offered are not what I need to help determine actual model.

Send us a picture of the drive side of the bicycle, taken square on from the side. Also, send pictures of the derailleurs and of the drops-outs(where the axles pass through the front and rear of the bike). Armed with those it will make identifying the bike easier.

In my mind, the bicycle has collectible value, even though they are not the most sought after of Italian road bicycles of that era. Without knowing where you live or how good the condition of the bicycle is and where it is located, estimating value will be difficult.

Have a look at my Legnano GP for detail comparison and try to determine if the rear drops have the word Campagnolo stamped into the face. If so, then you have a GP for sure...

Wileyone 

Check here he is also a Forum Member.

https://condorino.com/

juvela

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https://redding.craigslist.org/bik/d...391352181.html

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bikemig 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nicg...ature=youtu.be

https://redding.craigslist.org/bik/d...391352181.html

The asking price is optimistic

T-Mar

I agree that it appears to be 1960s, circa 1963, but I disagree with it being a Gran Premio, as it appears to have the stamped Camapgnolo dropouts. Also, while we don't have a good drive side photo, the rear derailleur has the travel adjusters on top of the top pivot housing and this is indicative of a Campagnolo Sportsman, entry level derailleur. The bicycle model may be something like a Sportivo, with a drop bar conversion.

The condition is only fair and I see mismatched wheels. There are lots of set-up issues. This bicycle will require lots of work.

While Legnano of this era are desirable, the level and condition drives the price down substantially. Given the level and the time and money that I would have to put into it against restored value, I would probably consider this a parts bicycle. As it is currently advertised, without good pictures of the drive train components and chrome condition, my offer would be well under $100.

Clang

So $100 for the bike, and $900 for the patina?

Vintage Legnano Italian Bicycle - Made in Italy - $1000 (Redding, CA)

https://redding.craigslist.org/bik/d...391352181.html

bikemig 

juvela

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I'm with T-Mar here. Note also that the Gaslos have gone walkabout. A set of the correct ones on ebay is about a $120 item.

Ex-works would expect it to have been fitted with Sheffields rather than Atoms.

A GP would have been wearing a Legnano-Magistroni HS rather than this Way-Assauto. Have a base model Legnano frameset in me racks which came fitted with Way-Assauto.

Rear wheel could not be original as hub did not exist at time of cycle's making. Front wheel at least plausible.

The presence of the Sportman is a helpful dating aid as these enjoyed such a brief production life.

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3alarmer 

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...am I the only one who is surprised by the number of people who join the forum and start a thread asking for valuation advice only to ignore it ?
What's up with that ? Do they think we're just lying to them to get a better deal for ourselves or what ? It's very discouraging.

merziac

They stop listening once reality sets in.

jacobwatkins

Hey Everyone,

Thanks for the valuable input some of you gave me.

Randyjawa, I attempted to take the pictures your asked for. If I missed some, I'm sorry. I'm not familiar with some of the terms you mentioned, but after looking them up I hope I got pictures that will work.

The pictures at this link are much higher quality then the youtube slideshow I made. You should be able to zoom in on them for more details.

redding.craigslist.org/bik/d/vintage-legnano-italian/6391352181.html

Let me know your thoughts.

Condorino

Hello friends,

Yes, from the serial number I would conclude that this Legnano was produced in 1963-1964 and it is a Mod.54 Corsa that was positioned 3 steps down behind the Gran Premio and Roma Olimpiade in that order . . . and one step above the Mod.53 Mezza Corsa that was a 5-speed arrangement without a front double chainring or front derailleur (in most cases).

Others have spoken to the components that appear to have been changed up including the front derailleur, possibly the rear derailleur (as I can't remember off hand when Campagnolo released the Sportman), the brake levers do not appear to be Universal 61 and someone has commented on the mismatched wheels that I can not make out from the photographs however the one yellow label Fiamme rim that I can see in the photos could well be original to the bike.

The Gran Premio and Roma frames of this period where both built with Campagnolo dropouts (sometimes only on the rear of GP models) which were dispensed with for the Mod.54 and Mod.53 that used stamped lugs as is the case with this Legnano. The stem and bars were also of a lesser quality as is the case with this Legnano.

The GP and Roma were also fitted in most cases with Campagnolo Record HF hubs engraved with the Legnano logo on the barrels . . . although the GP also shipped with HF Simplex hubs and 27in. clincher rims on some imports to America. I suspect these hubs are M.M. Atom (Maillard) hubs however I can not determine that from the photos. The stampings on the skewer levers should clarify that point.

Valuations are typically something I stay away from on my website although I do get many requests. I make exceptions to my rule when it appears that a seller is claiming something that it is not and when the selling price is clearly excessive, which it is in the case. Having said that, a bike's value can mean different things to different people and I always respect that point of view above all else.

regards,
Mark Campbell
www.condorino.com

jacobwatkins

Wonderful. Thank you so much for the extreme detail you went into on the differences between this bike and the higher sought after GPs.

I will take the advice and adjust the price considerably.

Thanks everyone!

T-Mar

My understanding, based on extant literature, has always been that the Corsa and Mezza Corsa were identical with the exception of the wheelset, with the Corsa having tubulars and the Mezza Corsa having wired-on. The subject bicycle is clearly equipped with the latter. Single versus double chainring is more an indicator of era for these models.

Wileyone 

I had always thought the Roma Olimpiade was the top tier in the Legnano line. Or am I somehow miss interpreting your post?

Condorino

I should have clarified by the year we were discussing as you are correct T-Mar. The 1952 Legnano catalog differentiates the Mezza Corsa and Corsa primarily with the addition of tubular tires. However a latter catalog in my library (early 60s but no specific date) describes/shows the Mezza Corsa as having a single chainring. I will try to make some time to post the visuals.

FYI . . . the Mod.53 and Mod.54 designation was used by Legnano well into the late 70's with varying mixes of components and frame details as the years went on. These model numbers were also used by Bozzi SpA for similarly positioned models with their other brand Wolsit. Not sure about Frejus but I will check into that when I have a momentt.

My research has shown many exceptions to Legnano model configurations as Bozzi SpA began to seriously embrace export markets starting in the early 60's and there are no absolutes to be sure. The Gran Premio in particular had a lot of different flavours when it came to components and I suspect this was to hit competitive price points in foreign markets as the years went on, particularly in America.

Condorino

Yes, the Roma was always Legnano's top model. I should have written more clearly. Apologies for the confusion.

T-Mar

Based on the Legnanao literature I seen, there was no model name in the early days, only a model number. After Binda won the 1925 Giro, it became the Giro d'Italia. When he won the World's in 1927, it became the Campione del Mondo. When he won the 1932 World's in Rome, it became the Roma.

Slightspeed

I have a mostly original '64 Roma that I've had since new as a junior racer. The S/N is FE7087, stamped on the rear of the seat post directly under the mounting bolt for brake cable guide. It came with sew ups, high flange Campy hubs, Fiamme red label rims. 36 hole. The hubs are Legnano branded with the lube holes and black metal cover. I replaced the wheels with clinchers (wrong Tipo rear hub) for $60, 20 years ago. The RD is a steel Gran Sport with round ( not toothed) jockey wheels. FD is original Nuovo Record. It came with Campy bar ends on Legnano branded bars with an Ambrosio stem, replaced by Nitto a couple years ago. It came with a 53/45 Crank, which I recently changed to a 52/42, smaller bcd, but same style Campy. It had a Campy branded narrow rail Brooks, which split a few years ago on a rainy ride, stupid me. Universal 61 centerpulls, and original levers, new gummed hoods. Other than that it's a pretty much original example of 1964. I always thought it was a 1965, but I found an old snapshot dated '64. I know back in the day liberties were taken with equipment and as delivered options, so this is offered only as one example, mostly original. I think my parents paid $175 for it, trading in my nearly mint Schwinn Continental, my first "race bike". We were fortunate to have a bike shop, Bicycle Center in Bakersfield, as a sponsor. I don't miss the Conti, but the Legnano, was and is, my first Love. I know this is way beyond the OP's scope, but thought the Legnano tifosi might be interested. The mtn bike SPDS in the photo have been temporarily changed to original Campy with Velo Orange half clips for Eroica.

BTW, I'm no historian, but I thought the Roma name was adopted following the 1960 Rome Olympics.

T-Mar

I've seen about a handful of Legnano catalogues spanning the period between Binda's 1932 World Championship in Rome and the 1960 Rome Olympics, and the top road model designation was always the Roma. Here's a catalogue showing it in existence, as least as early a 1934. The 1931 catalogue shows the top road model as the Campione del Mondo. Given the timing of the name change and the significance of Binda's victory, there's no doubt in my mind regarding the heritage of the model name.

Wileyone 

I had always thought it was after Baldini's Gold Medal at the 1956 Olympics in Melborne. The Bike was renamed the Roma Olympiade.

https://www.theracingbicycle.com/Legnano_1958.html

3alarmer 

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...a different Legnano, that I just got rideable again. I'm waiting on a rim order to put more appropriate hubs on it.
Campagnolo dropouts on the frame, not much else in the way of decals and I'd be surprised if any of the components other than maybe the stem, possibly the crank, were original to it.

T-Mar

^ Stays end treatment at set lug looks like a Roma but this can be confirmed via the presence of a binder slot in the front of the seat lug, between the top and seat tubes. I'd place it circa 1961-1966 based on the rear brake boss, in combination with chromed head lugs (too bad about all the sanding in the head area). The serial number may help to narrow things down. Legnano are always nice acquisitions. Enjoy!

juvela

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Presence of the Ambrosio Champion stem & bar set tends to make me think pre-1965.

Of course Bozzi could have had a backstock to work through...

Does shell have a lubrication fitting?

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