Choosing first tt bike the easy way
10-26-18, 01:18 AM
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Choosing first tt bike the easy way
Can anyone give me some tips on choosing my fist tt bike , it seems alot of it comes down to aero kit , wind tunnle testing , postion and fit , mostly things i probably cant afford so id try to stick to the diy road .
Ive been looking at a cdale slice well under 2000usd or a trek speed concept , a litte over 2000 usd , its my first tt bike so i dont think i will ever need a 5k brand new machine .plus i need to get the more aero wheels and kit.
I also want to get this bike to be an endurance machine as well as a speed machine , id like to attept a few 200 mile rides , i think the tt postion would be best for this ????
But over all i have no clue where to begin , i could just buy a frame and parts and hope for the best , i can do a little bit of fit , i dont know what kind of cockpit to go for as well , i kinda of just go by feel, if i can do a 100 miles without getting unusual pain ill feel like this is the right fit .
for example , I changed my saddle and my knee started feeling funny so i switched the position and it feels better , so i feel the fit is correct , thats the kind of bike fit i can do , i dont have 500 to spend on some computer aided fit or 4000 to spend on a private company to buy a bike exactly for me, im self supporrted diy right now , would be nice but i dont have it .
Ive been looking at a cdale slice well under 2000usd or a trek speed concept , a litte over 2000 usd , its my first tt bike so i dont think i will ever need a 5k brand new machine .plus i need to get the more aero wheels and kit.
I also want to get this bike to be an endurance machine as well as a speed machine , id like to attept a few 200 mile rides , i think the tt postion would be best for this ????
But over all i have no clue where to begin , i could just buy a frame and parts and hope for the best , i can do a little bit of fit , i dont know what kind of cockpit to go for as well , i kinda of just go by feel, if i can do a 100 miles without getting unusual pain ill feel like this is the right fit .
for example , I changed my saddle and my knee started feeling funny so i switched the position and it feels better , so i feel the fit is correct , thats the kind of bike fit i can do , i dont have 500 to spend on some computer aided fit or 4000 to spend on a private company to buy a bike exactly for me, im self supporrted diy right now , would be nice but i dont have it .
10-26-18, 06:24 AM
#2
Blast from the Past
I would suggest that how easily you can adjust your position should be a big factor in your first TT Bike. Staying away from some that require proprietary front end parts. I've spent the last couple years on the older Slice 105. Standard stem & spacers and using a Vuka AL bar has allowed playing with the front end cheap & easy. Even with fitting help my position evolved quite a bit early on.
A lot of good bike fit info on Slowtwitch.
A lot of good bike fit info on Slowtwitch.
10-26-18, 08:53 AM
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There is zero chance I’d ride my TT bike on a 200 mile ride. First my position is too aggressive for that to be comfortable. The bike is stiff it’s not the most comfortable on rough terrain. And it’s heavy, so climbing would be a slog. Anything much over 50 miles is going to be way more comfortable on my endurance road bike.
As to choosing a TT bike, my approach was straightforward: I went to see my fitter, who did a TT fit for me on a fit bike, then gave me a shopping list of bikes that would work for me and some ideas about the most important pieces of TT equipment (helmet, clothing, wheels, bars, saddle). If you have access to such a service, it’s a smart way to go, as it prevents missteps and overspending on equipment that’s got drawbacks/issues you might not appreciate, or is needlessly expensive.
If you don’t have access to that kind of service, be aware that the most important thing is not the bike but the *position* the bike allows you to achieve. That’s what VooDoo is getting at when he suggests getting a bike that is very adjustable vs one that is not. You want to be able to evolve your position over time.
I have a Fuji Norcom Straight, which I got on sale new for $1800. It came with crappy bars and saddle which had to be immediately upgraded, and mediocre wheels which had to be ungraded for racing. But it was an inexpensive entry point to TTing and allowed me to get my feet wet in the discipline before I decided on going all-in.
Be aware that Tri bikes live by a different set of rules than TT bikes, geometry wise. Many tri bikes are not UCI legal, which rarely matters when racing in the US on practical grounds- in theory, race officials could check your bike and DQ you for a non-UCI-legal bike but in reality the only place this might happen is at TT Nationals. So a question a fitter would ask you first thing is: do you want a UCI legal bike? Felt, Trek, BMC, Specialized, Cervelo, and Fuji off the top of my head make UCI legal bikes. IIRC, the old Cannondale Slices were UCI legal but the newer ones are not. Again, not likely a huge issue but it might tip the scales for you in one direction over another.
As to choosing a TT bike, my approach was straightforward: I went to see my fitter, who did a TT fit for me on a fit bike, then gave me a shopping list of bikes that would work for me and some ideas about the most important pieces of TT equipment (helmet, clothing, wheels, bars, saddle). If you have access to such a service, it’s a smart way to go, as it prevents missteps and overspending on equipment that’s got drawbacks/issues you might not appreciate, or is needlessly expensive.
If you don’t have access to that kind of service, be aware that the most important thing is not the bike but the *position* the bike allows you to achieve. That’s what VooDoo is getting at when he suggests getting a bike that is very adjustable vs one that is not. You want to be able to evolve your position over time.
I have a Fuji Norcom Straight, which I got on sale new for $1800. It came with crappy bars and saddle which had to be immediately upgraded, and mediocre wheels which had to be ungraded for racing. But it was an inexpensive entry point to TTing and allowed me to get my feet wet in the discipline before I decided on going all-in.
Be aware that Tri bikes live by a different set of rules than TT bikes, geometry wise. Many tri bikes are not UCI legal, which rarely matters when racing in the US on practical grounds- in theory, race officials could check your bike and DQ you for a non-UCI-legal bike but in reality the only place this might happen is at TT Nationals. So a question a fitter would ask you first thing is: do you want a UCI legal bike? Felt, Trek, BMC, Specialized, Cervelo, and Fuji off the top of my head make UCI legal bikes. IIRC, the old Cannondale Slices were UCI legal but the newer ones are not. Again, not likely a huge issue but it might tip the scales for you in one direction over another.
10-26-18, 09:07 AM
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The majority of my road and track races are on a time trial bike (track a pursuit bike which is a fixed gear time trial bike). I race on a 2008 Cervelo P2C frame. You can pick up used frames at deep discounts on Ebay and from local road racers and triathletes. The key to the local scene is to sign up for your local racing association message board.
If you go the new equipment route, look for a triathlon shop or bike shop that features time trial bikes. Many times they will have a person who is good at fitting or at least picking a bike that is about the right size for you. As Voodoo76 said, stay away from anything too integrated. If you want to ride 200 miles in the time trial position, you will need to be more upright, at least I would. FWIW, the idea of riding 200 miles or even 100 miles on a TT bike makes my head explode and I like to ride my TT bike. Of course, everyone is different and has different motivation.
I do not know of anyone that starts in a wind tunnel. Most go to a bike shop with a budget and buys one. Over time, one evolves in the level of sophistication that one wants to apply to the art of time trial and then goes down the path of optimization. Have you ever ridden in the TT position or been on a trainer on one? Are you planning on racing time trials?
If you go the new equipment route, look for a triathlon shop or bike shop that features time trial bikes. Many times they will have a person who is good at fitting or at least picking a bike that is about the right size for you. As Voodoo76 said, stay away from anything too integrated. If you want to ride 200 miles in the time trial position, you will need to be more upright, at least I would. FWIW, the idea of riding 200 miles or even 100 miles on a TT bike makes my head explode and I like to ride my TT bike. Of course, everyone is different and has different motivation.
I do not know of anyone that starts in a wind tunnel. Most go to a bike shop with a budget and buys one. Over time, one evolves in the level of sophistication that one wants to apply to the art of time trial and then goes down the path of optimization. Have you ever ridden in the TT position or been on a trainer on one? Are you planning on racing time trials?
Last edited by Hermes; 10-26-18 at 09:11 AM.
10-26-18, 10:51 AM
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[QUOTE=Hermes;20634334]The majority of my road and track races are on a time trial bike (track a pursuit bike which is a fixed gear time trial bike). I race on a 2008 Cervelo P2C frame. You can pick up used frames at deep discounts on Ebay and from local road racers and triathletes. The key to the local scene is to sign up for your local racing association message board./QUOTE]
Do you have issues with wheels on that frame. I recall that some older frames, Cervelos in particular, had rather narrow stays and newer, wider rims often don't fit.
Do you have issues with wheels on that frame. I recall that some older frames, Cervelos in particular, had rather narrow stays and newer, wider rims often don't fit.
10-26-18, 12:10 PM
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[QUOTE=topflightpro;20634507]
No but the wider 25 mm rims just clear. I have all older Zipp and HED 19 mm race wheels such that it is not a problem.
The majority of my road and track races are on a time trial bike (track a pursuit bike which is a fixed gear time trial bike). I race on a 2008 Cervelo P2C frame. You can pick up used frames at deep discounts on Ebay and from local road racers and triathletes. The key to the local scene is to sign up for your local racing association message board./QUOTE]
Do you have issues with wheels on that frame. I recall that some older frames, Cervelos in particular, had rather narrow stays and newer, wider rims often don't fit.
Do you have issues with wheels on that frame. I recall that some older frames, Cervelos in particular, had rather narrow stays and newer, wider rims often don't fit.
10-27-18, 11:20 PM
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Go spend a lot of time reading on the slowtiwtch forums. Those guys know TT bikes better than anybody here. (especially if you want to do long rides on them). Their first piece of advice, since your brand new and don't know your "body type" will be to go to a GOOD fitter. Not one with your bike that will change stuff around, but one that will sit you on a fit bike and move stuff around to get your pad x/y so you can go out and get the right frame and bar setup.
From there it's all about the low hanging fruit and playing with position until you find something that balances out speed vs comfort and power production.
From there it's all about the low hanging fruit and playing with position until you find something that balances out speed vs comfort and power production.
10-30-18, 08:25 PM
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Maybe i thought the tt bars where good for endurance rides , thanks for the tips .
10-30-18, 08:36 PM
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people generally dont do 200m on a TT bike.. Even IM is what 116m or so on a Tri bike which is probably not setup as aggressive as you might think...(they have to run a marathon after) What's wrong with an endurance road bike with some clip bars ?
10-31-18, 12:44 PM
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I once did a 100 mile solo time trial on my time trial bike.
Took about 40 minutes to realize the errors of my ways. Am very confident I would have been faster on my normal bike.
Took about 40 minutes to realize the errors of my ways. Am very confident I would have been faster on my normal bike.
10-31-18, 02:48 PM
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...but it didn't matter b/c you were almost done**********
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so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
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so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
10-31-18, 03:04 PM
#12
~>~
Just a short-ish effort, but here's Richard Bideau's British 100 mile TT machine good for a 3:18.54 new record time.
Get one of those and have at it.
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/l...-record-180632
Get one of those and have at it.
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/l...-record-180632
10-31-18, 03:08 PM
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Strange coincidence that this article would be published today right when this thread is active. It's on Slowtwitch and its about Jim Manton, who is the guy I use for my bike fits and aerotesting. It explains the process pretty well. Besides the practical result of bike fit on road, TT and MTB, I've learned tons from Jim over many sessions (most of which he has done for free for reasons I don't fully understand) and he's saved me lots of time and money.
Anyway: https://www.slowtwitch.com/Bike_Fit/...Akv-oWBbgbGD2E
Anyway: https://www.slowtwitch.com/Bike_Fit/...Akv-oWBbgbGD2E
10-31-18, 03:27 PM
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Just a short-ish effort, but here's Richard Bideau's British 100 mile TT machine good for a 3:18.54 new record time.
Get one of those and have at it.
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/l...-record-180632
Get one of those and have at it.
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/l...-record-180632
is this one of those traffic-wind-aided flat british tt things?
10-31-18, 03:35 PM
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10-31-18, 03:39 PM
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Strange coincidence that this article would be published today right when this thread is active. It's on Slowtwitch and its about Jim Manton, who is the guy I use for my bike fits and aerotesting. It explains the process pretty well. Besides the practical result of bike fit on road, TT and MTB, I've learned tons from Jim over many sessions (most of which he has done for free for reasons I don't fully understand) and he's saved me lots of time and money.
Anyway: https://www.slowtwitch.com/Bike_Fit/...Akv-oWBbgbGD2E
Anyway: https://www.slowtwitch.com/Bike_Fit/...Akv-oWBbgbGD2E
10-31-18, 05:41 PM
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10-31-18, 10:22 PM
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Im pretty sure that guys back wheel cost more than all 7 of my bikes combined .
I dont need an endurance bike to do 200 miles in one day it will take me about 12 hours though. I have a madone , tarmac and a giant tcx i could use any of those, but the 200 miles thing was just a thought . i want to compete in tt events and have a legit chance to set tt times .
I was wondering if i should just convert my madone 7 to a tt bike for my very first tt bike , and put most of the finacial effort into aero wheels and better tt kit once the season swings back around .
A conversion would required a full bar swap , possible a fork from a speed concept might work too . new cables and maybe a chain keeper catcher if i go 1x . its got the 10 speed red double 53 ring now . and a re install of the cables . or a hybrid bar, normal road shifters aero drop bar with clip ons .
the fastest guys at the local tt had high end road bike conversions or clip ons , but they had top of the line road bikes with aero features and wheels and full aero kit .plus 20 years of exp .lol
I think the 2016 ish slice is the cheapest option for a dedicated tt bike . the p2 or speed concept are about the same year and price for frames or full builds . i doubt ill be doing any UCI events as a uci racer i would be doing usa cycling events as a 4/5 .
I dont need an endurance bike to do 200 miles in one day it will take me about 12 hours though. I have a madone , tarmac and a giant tcx i could use any of those, but the 200 miles thing was just a thought . i want to compete in tt events and have a legit chance to set tt times .
I was wondering if i should just convert my madone 7 to a tt bike for my very first tt bike , and put most of the finacial effort into aero wheels and better tt kit once the season swings back around .
A conversion would required a full bar swap , possible a fork from a speed concept might work too . new cables and maybe a chain keeper catcher if i go 1x . its got the 10 speed red double 53 ring now . and a re install of the cables . or a hybrid bar, normal road shifters aero drop bar with clip ons .
the fastest guys at the local tt had high end road bike conversions or clip ons , but they had top of the line road bikes with aero features and wheels and full aero kit .plus 20 years of exp .lol
I think the 2016 ish slice is the cheapest option for a dedicated tt bike . the p2 or speed concept are about the same year and price for frames or full builds . i doubt ill be doing any UCI events as a uci racer i would be doing usa cycling events as a 4/5 .
Last edited by Teamprovicycle; 10-31-18 at 10:43 PM.
11-01-18, 05:28 AM
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Im pretty sure that guys back wheel cost more than all 7 of my bikes combined .
I dont need an endurance bike to do 200 miles in one day it will take me about 12 hours though. I have a madone , tarmac and a giant tcx i could use any of those, but the 200 miles thing was just a thought . i want to compete in tt events and have a legit chance to set tt times .
I was wondering if i should just convert my madone 7 to a tt bike for my very first tt bike , and put most of the finacial effort into aero wheels and better tt kit once the season swings back around .
A conversion would required a full bar swap , possible a fork from a speed concept might work too . new cables and maybe a chain keeper catcher if i go 1x . its got the 10 speed red double 53 ring now . and a re install of the cables . or a hybrid bar, normal road shifters aero drop bar with clip ons .
the fastest guys at the local tt had high end road bike conversions or clip ons , but they had top of the line road bikes with aero features and wheels and full aero kit .plus 20 years of exp .lol
I think the 2016 ish slice is the cheapest option for a dedicated tt bike . the p2 or speed concept are about the same year and price for frames or full builds . i doubt ill be doing any UCI events as a uci racer i would be doing usa cycling events as a 4/5 .
I dont need an endurance bike to do 200 miles in one day it will take me about 12 hours though. I have a madone , tarmac and a giant tcx i could use any of those, but the 200 miles thing was just a thought . i want to compete in tt events and have a legit chance to set tt times .
I was wondering if i should just convert my madone 7 to a tt bike for my very first tt bike , and put most of the finacial effort into aero wheels and better tt kit once the season swings back around .
A conversion would required a full bar swap , possible a fork from a speed concept might work too . new cables and maybe a chain keeper catcher if i go 1x . its got the 10 speed red double 53 ring now . and a re install of the cables . or a hybrid bar, normal road shifters aero drop bar with clip ons .
the fastest guys at the local tt had high end road bike conversions or clip ons , but they had top of the line road bikes with aero features and wheels and full aero kit .plus 20 years of exp .lol
I think the 2016 ish slice is the cheapest option for a dedicated tt bike . the p2 or speed concept are about the same year and price for frames or full builds . i doubt ill be doing any UCI events as a uci racer i would be doing usa cycling events as a 4/5 .
A Big Bang for your buck would be to get clip on aerobars and an aero helmet. Race a few TTs and see how it goes.
Im pretty sure Jim’s rear wheel doesn’t cost more that your three bikes, cause I had to borrow it once.
11-01-18, 11:14 AM
#22
Blast from the Past
Strange coincidence that this article would be published today right when this thread is active. It's on Slowtwitch and its about Jim Manton, who is the guy I use for my bike fits and aerotesting. It explains the process pretty well. Besides the practical result of bike fit on road, TT and MTB, I've learned tons from Jim over many sessions (most of which he has done for free for reasons I don't fully understand) and he's saved me lots of time and money.
Anyway: https://www.slowtwitch.com/Bike_Fit/...Akv-oWBbgbGD2E
Anyway: https://www.slowtwitch.com/Bike_Fit/...Akv-oWBbgbGD2E
