jebensch

I found out the hard way about the Shimano style cable ends getting jammed in the anchorage meant for the slightly smaller Campy cable head. Right side 2nd gen Record 8sp brifter. There was some dremelling, some tapping with a light hammer, all kinds of unspeakable things. I got it unstuck. However, when I put everything back in order on the bike the shifting was off. Wouldn't hit all the cogs, often jumping 2 cogs with a shift. Rattling on the lower cogs.

I through on a new chain, despite the fact that the previous chain worked well with the Campy 8sp cassette. New chain no different. I had changed the shift cables, but that wouldn't do it.

So did I strip or bend or kill something in my Ergopower when I was giving the cable end the angry gorilla treatment?

I'm afraid to open up the innards of the brifter even though Campyonly/Cambriabike says it's a reasonable repair.

Thoughts?

buldogge

Don't see how you could have changed anything by taking out the brake cable. Did you disassemble anything?

Probably obvious...but...make sure the thumb lever is completely bottomed out (1st position) before you set-up the RD.

Give us a play by play of what you did...

Lewis_Moon

I took my Chorus 10s apart and put them back together, and after a bit of fumbling I got to the point where I could do it by feel. I don't think there's much in there you could screw up....Did you download the instructions from Branford?

Drillium Dude 

+1

If you didn't disassemble the innards, I don't see any reason for the shifting to be off unless you didn't get the shifter to its bottomed-out position when re-cabling.

I'd also be interested in a little clearer blow-by-blow

DD

jebensch

Okay - all started with the shift cable housing, was a bit too short and pulled out of the ferrule at the barrel adjuster on the downtube. I've got 8sp Record brifters, 8sp Athena RD and a Campy cassette.

1. Upon attempting to replace the housing with a longer piece, I found that the shift cable head was jammed solid into the recess where it anchors inside the brifter.
2. Unable to budge the thing, I whacked at the cable end with a small hammer and a teeny allen wrench. Nothing. I drilled through the cable head some with a Dremel. Took a small nail and pushed it in through the other side where the trimmed cable exits that cog, tapped with the hammer - eventually got the cable end out.
3. Ran a new shift cable (with the cable head filed down a bit to ensure non-jamming)
4. tested in the stand, it didn't work well: on high gear shifts the chain would jump 2 cogs. On low gear shifts it would find the cog, but not squarely, leaving the derailleur chuck-chuck-chuckking
5. ran a new Z-Chain with the same result.
6. fiddled with the barrel adjuster on the RD. Now it shifts adequately on the high gears. Still chuck-chuck-chukking on the low gears and also jumping over the destination cog on those low gear shifts. I should add it takes a lot of lever action on the brifter to engage one of these low gear shifts. Very gushy feeling.

It seems like I'm running an incompatible RD with a mismatched pull, but it's the same as I had it before all this and should be peachy. I have a 7sp Dura Ace freewheel that I could throw on a different wheel - see if I get a better result. But I don't see why this has changed so dramatically. Not sure what to do since I don't feel like dropping a chunk of cash on another Campy cassette or replacement brifter. And I love the C-Rec freehub this is built around. This must be how Fiat Spyder owners felt.

-Jesse

buldogge

I guess theoretically the index gear and the ratchet ring could be out of sync from whacking on the ratchet...but...can't imagine it would shift cleanly (not correctly, cleanly)...???

jebensch

More on the "angry gorilla" phase. Before dislodging the cable end, I was pushing hard from the cable-side of the cable end, like - from the back of the hole where the cable exits in the anchorage recess on the cog. The first couple of times I was pushing, the cog would then slip a few notches. Then I wised up and braced against the pushing with the flat of a screwdriver against a tooth on the cog. It still could bottom-out and top-out after this treatment. It doesn't look like a stripped any cog teeth (but then again, cassette cogs never look used-up either).

But like you were just getting at, I'm afraid I pushed something out of sync in there where all the magic happens.

JunkYardBike

It's probably rejecting the non-Campy shift cable.

You might try adjusting cable tension on the fourth cog (from the bottom or small cog). Read here: https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ifting-problem

Lots of these problems have been addressed in the Mechanics Forum. Block out a few hours and get reading!

However, that being said, I rebuilt a Campy Mirage ergo (if I can do it, anyone can) and could never resolve a shifting issue. The only way I could get it to shift marginally well was to return to a stock cassette configuration (I had swapped out some cogs for lower gearing with aftermarket Miche cogs, but the tooth steps I chose obviously hadn't been approved by the Pope.)

jebensch

Holy smokes. Is it possible I fixed it by moving the cable's position under the fixing bolt (of the RD)? I had fixed it on the outside of the bolt. Moved it to the inside, nearer the dropout, and we have ignition!

Unbelievable.

buldogge

Yeah, that's a huge difference in pull (relative to cassette spacing). The trick for using a 10s RD with 11s is simply to move the cable closer to the bolt center by cutting a channel equal to the width of the cable.

Glad you figured it out...

RobbieTunes

I remain blissfully ignorant, but enjoyed reading this thread. I knew better than to offer advice.

I've seen the routing issue before, when I built a bike using a rear wheel stand instead of a repair stand. The rear wheel stand interfered a bit with routing the RD cable, and I just "did it." Then it acted a lot like the OP's, and hell hath no fury like a relative whose bike you "fixed" does not work.

Luckily, an LBS old hand simply took it apart back there, put it back together, and it worked perfectly. He told my relative "I think you were overshifting" and I'm back to being family, as if that's a good thing.

The old wrench told me "route it the obvious way, or read the instructions, but they're almost always the same." I said "define: Campy obvious," and we both laughed.

velomateo

I used this video to do my first ergo rebuild. Not too difficult at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naFM8...eature=related

dddd

Yikes, and I just had someone bring me a bike (Colnago w/Ergo's) with the same issue last night, before our town's Grand Fondo ride that went down today.
It had housing issues, the cable wrong at the anchor AND the stuck Shimano cable!!! I had to drill two holes in the cable head before I could force it out, even after using PB-Blaster.

Since I was working on that, I didn't see this post until now, but glad you got it sorted out.

This has to be one of the all-time most common problems with DIY work on index systems.

jebensch

Yeah - I certainly have it my head and habits that generic cables will do fine for my meager needs as a rider. Pishaw to those $10 Campy cables. Well...apparently they've got that proprietary thing down pretty well (though a file and vise are a great weapon).

I'm also stubbornly holding on to this setup because of the style. It would be a cinch to troll CL until a deal on a bike with Tiagra or Sora came up, and have a lot more parts available for fixes, but blech - so fugly!

20grit

Yeah, those people's videos are great. I think I remember seeing an 8s one.

dddd

A lot of the newer generic cables are now coming in with a head diameter that's less than or equal to 4.3mm.

At 4.4mm and above, cable heads will get really stuck. Genuine Shimano measures between 4.3 and 4.4mm and often do get stuck.

The WalMart complete kit has cable wires with Campy-compatible heads but un-lined housing.

roadrunner2012

Newer campy requires 4mm housing, I believe the shift cable heads are 4.1mm, maybe less. Walmart stuff will not work, in spite of what the 'experts' say.

dddd

The latest WalMart (Bell) kit has Campy heads all around, and not just by a smigen smaller than Shimano either.
The shift wire ends are even shaped like Campy's, and even have the letter C stamped into them. The diameter is 3.9mm.

As far as the housing, Campy's shifters have the shift housings plugged into the shifters with 6mm OD ferrules, so actually any housing works.

roadrunner2012

Current Ultrashift uses 4.1 casing for the derailleurs, 4.9 casing for the brakes. The cable is 1.2 for the shifters, 1.6 for the brakes. Older campy Ergos could use just about any housing, the new shape, not so much. I honestly don't understand why someone would buy Campy Ergos and go to Walmart for cables/casing. I suppose if you are going there for cables, you may as well pick up some Bell tyres while you're there. They are prbably as good as anything else.

20grit

Bell tires and tubes are just re-badged CST products. Not bad, not great. There are a few users of CST tires here.

dddd

I think someone already mentioned the super-high price of a Campag inner wire, which isn't even a slick-type cable, so really there is nothing special about it. It's likely made in China by the very same vendor, but shops are charging 7-10 dollars for a single cable wire.
Customers are looking for the smallest quantity of discounted cable, so as not to be gouged, and the Bell cable kit would seem to meet the requirement perfectly.

Again, about the housings, these fit with ferrules in place, so any housing with the standard 6mm O.D. ferrules (i.e. all current housing) is fine.
Shimano went as small as 3.6mm O.D. at one point, but now use 4.0mm housings, which are completely compatible with all Ergo shifters.

triathloner

This is kind of way out there, but do you have your cable attached to the correct position on your rear derailleur? I bought a few cheap javelin bikes on internet closeout a few years back for myself and my son and they just didn't shift correctly when we got them. Took me forever to realize that the cable was attached to the outerside of the screw on the rear derailleur and not on a smoother straight pull to the inside of the screw down there as it was supposed to be. The symptoms was jumping cogs, many times two, 9 speed bike and I could only get 7 shifts out of it until I changed it. I know weird, but worth a look anyway.

rm -rf

That's all it takes.
I just had my cable on the wrong side of the washer clamp's tab, not even on the wrong side of the bolt. Only half the cogs would shift cleanly at a time. It took me a while to figure it out, after I tried a bunch of other adjustments that didn't help.