msdumo

I just got a 2002 Norco Avanti free. I cleaned it up and replaced chain and cassette to stop skipping.I like this bike so far but found shifting was reversed. This bike has Nexave shifter and deraillers.
My other three bikes use a lever to move the rear derailler to a lower gear and a button or trigger to move to a higher gear.
The Nexave does this the opposite way. The lever is used to go to a higher gear and button for a lower gear.
As far as I can figure out the derailler must have spring tension to move to a larger cog or lower gear which is the opposite of most deraillers.
The lever would be used to overcome the tension and walk the chain to a lower cog or higher gear.
So what is your experience with Nexave components?

DorkDisk

Welcome to Rapid Rise. I've never used nexave, but have some experience with XTR Rapid Rise (low-normal) derailleurs which do exactly what you said, grab a lower gear on cable release. It's not as bad as the reverse shifting front derailleur - THAT was lame and harder to get used to.

Rapid Rise was mated with the horrendous MTB brifters for who knows what reason and the combo was awful. The market spoke and first S quietly released standalone RF+ and brake levers; eventually when 10 speed came along, rapid rise and MTB dual control silently went away.

I still have a few XTR M951 rapid rise derailleurs which I removed but cannot throw out because XTR.

msdumo

I liked how you stated the problem.
So if I had to replace the derailleur can I use a derailleur (not Nexave) that goes to a higher gear on a cable release with this Nexave shifter?

DorkDisk

Yeah; any 7,8, or 9 sp MTB, and 10sp non-Tiagra-4700 rear derailleur will work - just mind the cage length.

One can identify a rapid rise easily when uninstalled or with no cable tension, as it opens up (like a hand) and looks all wrong, vs closed (fistlike) on a proper derailleur.

hokiefyd 

I think you're asking if you can use a traditional (high normal) derailleur with your existing Nexave shifter.

If I'm not mistaken, a rapid-rise shifter must be paired with a rapid-rise derailleur, and vice-versa. So you would not be able to use a traditional derailleur with your Nexave shifter. You'll need to replace the shifter and derailleur as a pair. If you try to use your Nexave shifter with a traditional derailleur, your indicated gear on the shifter will be different from what it actually is on the cassette in the best case. In the worst case, the cable pull ratios aren't compatible and indexing won't work correctly, regardless of the indicated numbers on the shifter.

I helped a friend convert a bike from a Nexave/rapid-rise derailleur to a standard drivetrain and we did both the derailleur and the shifter at one time.

DorkDisk

This is wrong. There never were Rapid rise shifters, just derailleurs.

hokiefyd 

Wouldn't the gear indicator on the shifter be reversed? On a normal derailleur, cable all the way retracted (pulled taut by the shifter) is low gear ("1") and cable all the way extended is high gear ("8" for example). Wouldn't that be reversed with a rapid rise derailleur? Cable all the way retracted (pulled taut) is actually high gear ("8" for example) and cable all the way extended is actually low gear ("1")?

Edit: or is cable pull the same direction, and the derailleur is just sprung inboard vs. outboard?

Perhaps I'm getting Nexave confused with Nexus, which I believe does have a shifter that works in the opposite direction (internal gear hub).

DorkDisk

Nexus rapidfire shifters do shift opposite, but they do not use derailleurs. Nobody cares about consistency in OGD numbers, even S used low numbers for low gears on one model, and low numbers for high gears in others. OGD numbers are more place numbers, they don't mean anything else.

DorkDisk

For reference, here is a Rapid Rise derailleur (L) with a "normal" one (R) in the resting position. As its name implies, the RR unit is "open" and splayed inwards where the large cogs would be, whereas the "normal" unit would naturally "close" towards the small cogs.


Low normal (L) vs high normal (R)

rapid rise (L) and "normal" (R)