eduskator

Shimano is better than SRAM, period

For the update hassle, and unless Shimano finally found a way to make our life easier, it's not possible to update your 12sp shifters wirelessly. They need to wired to be updated.

I do my own maintenance so I don't bring my bikes to LBSs and don't want to pay 50$ for a piece of wire and an adaptor (it's just stupid IMO) so I'm not updating mine for now. Will see if I have issues at some point.

bbbean 

Like most consumers, my Di2 bikes came from the shop with Di2 installed. If I was running a shop or building bikes from scratch, simplicity could be an issue, but from a consumer perspective, I just want a product that works, and Di2 does, the way I want.

bbbean 

That certainly doesn't explain the number of riders with Ultegra and Dura Ace at races, group rides, tours, etc.I don't think I've ridden an "entry level" groupset since the 1980s. When I got back into cycling in 2012, I test rode Shimano and SRAM, and picked Shimano because I liked the way it worked. That is the case with most of the folks I know who prefer Shimano. Nothing against SRAM, but it is possible to prefer one or the other simply because you like the way they function.

No, and it's a moot point for me. I buy my bikes fully assembled, and have no need or desire to go inside the frame. I've also never rebuilt the transmission on my car or had need of soldering chips onto my motherboard. I salute people who do those things, but it isn't necessary for me to do that if the device works as intended.

eduskator

If you're choosing a groupset only because it has no wire, then I don't need / want to argue with you. All I will say is: use a magnetic tool, it's as easy as fishing a brake line.

My beef against SRAM is the slow shifting FD and frequent chain drops. It's a big no no for me. If you don't know what I'm talking about by slow shifting, go try an Ultegra or DA DI2 FD and compare.

bbbean 

You know what's really easy to install and maintain? Exterior cables and down tube shifters.For that matter a single speed does away with shifters altogether!

frdfandc

Even with a magnet tool, it's still a challenge. Building up a bike from parts is only a very small portion. My biggest issue was when a customer brought in a LBS bought bike with a Di2 issue. Usually it was just a wire that came unplugged from the shifter. But there were times when having to replace a wire that went from the battery to the rear derailleur. Those were the ones that drove me nuts.

frdfandc

While that is all true, modern bikes have complete internal wiring, cables, and brake lines as you already know. ​​​​​​So anything ran internally is going to be a pain even with the correct tools (which I have). If I am able to eliminate internally ran wires and cables, that's what I'm going to do.

Shadco 

Really? It took all of 10 minutes to run the wires for my 12 speed Di2 when I built my Aethos.

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PoorInRichfield

Interesting thread. I've been tempted to "upgrade" my Ultegra Di2 from 11 to 12 speed, but I've found too many reasons not to... and battery life is now another reason not to.

I personally prefer hard-wired components and a single battery. If I buy any more gadgets that require coin batteries, I'm going to have to buy stock in a battery company.

I built-up my own bike and don't feel that running the Di2 wires one time was much of a hassle, although I might think differently if I worked at a bike shop and did it daily. The only major disadvantage I see to hard wiring is the addition of wireless blip shifters, but my Di2 setup has a wireless module installed, so I'm assuming that could be "the best of all worlds" should I actually want wireless blip shifters.

eduskator

I feel you! However, I prefer my 12spd Ultegra over my previous 3 different 11spd Ultegra groupsets. It's smoother for sure. Plus, it's Bluetooth which is a nice upgrade over the previous generation that had to be hardwired to a computer in order to be updated and/or customized.

A lowered range does not bother me - I charge it every 2 weeks rather than every month. I started this tread to figure out if the average mileage I am getting out of a charge was reasonable since it was unknown territory for me.

For the coin-cell batteries inside the shifters, they are advertised to last 2 years, which is more than reasonable.

PoorInRichfield

A little late for you, but the Shimano EW-WU111 part is a wireless Bluetooth module for Di2 11-speed. I have it installed so my Garmin head unit can connect to Di2 and display what gear I'm in and also use the Shimano mobile app to update Di2.
https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/produ.../EW-WU111.html

eduskator

Yeah, I was aware of this module, but it was extra money I couldn't justify spending (just like I find that the 50$ wire needed to update my current 12spd shifters is total bullsh*t given the price we pay for our groupsets). It should have been OEM equipped from the start in my opinion, or at least only on Ultegra and DA groupsets.

Turnin_Wrenches

If you're running 12-speed 105, Ultegra, or Dura-Ace Di2 you should be able to update firmware and customize shifting wirelessly through the E-Tube Project app on your phone. No cables required. The only caveat I will add is this: In the (rare) instance where a firmware update goes wrong, you will need a SM-PCE02 interface module to rewrite (and correct) the firmware as this function is not available through the E-Tube project app.

And with regard to the original question that started this thread... I get several weeks (at least) between charges with my Ultegra and Dura-Ace 12-speed Di2 systems, and I ride 200-300 miles per week. Good battery life is a big reason why I prefer Shimano over SRAM. Having to charge those SRAM batteries every 20-25 hours would drive me nutz .

eduskator

Several weeks @ 200mi per week = roughly 1000mi? That's huge. Do you ride flat or mountains? I am asking, since the numbers of shift per ride certainly affects the range.

For the updates, you can't update your wireless shifters unless they are hard wired to the system.

Shadco 

On 12speed Di2 I bought a 1.6 meter $25 Di2 wire, I pop out the seat post and use the 3rd port on the battery and connect directly to shifter and update the shifters, no adapter required. When originally building I updated everything before installing the components on the frame.

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79pmooney

Correction - not always. "For that matter a single speed does away with shifters altogether!" I have two fix gears with double sided hubs and flip the wheel frequently. Just like racers did 110 years ago/ Four, five (or a lot more) on the floor - down tube shifting. Stick shifting - using that hub wrench. Brifters - three to thirteen in the tree.

eduskator

Yeah, I guess this works. I'm just not a fan of messing around with screws and components unnecessarily on my bicycle. If I would do this, I'd go through the front derailleur to not have to remote the seatpost. For now, I'm not updating them since I find it completely stupid to have to buy separate parts to update your bike (at least the accessories should be included when you buy the bike) and I hope they'll come up with a wireless fix soon.

bbbean 

Please read my reply in context. I was referring to the argument that setting up Di2 was more complicated than setting up SRAM. I was trying to make the point that as a rider, I was less concerned with the initial setup than I was the effectiveness in use. I wasn't trying to make an argument about the very simplest bike to setup. I suppose that would be no bike at all.

eduskator

Choosing a specific component because it's less difficult to install during a build < choosing a specific component because of how well it performs.

79pmooney

Sorry, my post was purely in light hearted jest. No hard feelings intended.

bbbean 

No hard feelings perceived. I just wanted to clear that up before it became its own 748 post sub thread.

Turnin_Wrenches

I'm in Florida, so the flat terrain (e.g. less shifting) is probably a big reason why I don't have to recharge as often.

As for the wireless shifters not connecting directly to E-Tube Project, I'm not thrilled about that. However, it's not a huge hassle, and you can work around that obstacle if necessary. Use of the SM-PCE02 module (if you have one) definitely makes it easier.

eduskator

Most likely, yes! My average 50km (30mi) ride has 800m (2500+ft) of total elevation so both of my derailleurs are solicitated a lot.

Shadco 

A seat post clamp bolt and roll the shifter hoods back. Don’t you have your seat post marked anyway?

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bampilot06

Just got my SLR 7 with Di2. Had Sram before so had no idea about this. Don’t get me started on updates.

I guess mine won’t be getting updated.