JoeyBike

You FINALLY got it! Congratulations.

Mindless entertainment is why I come here (A&S).

JoeyBike

I read myself!

Road cycling has it's inherent hazards, group or no group. Cyclists fall for a variety of reasons, even alone.

Who's fault IS that? Asking for a friend.

Driver could be impaired and/or unskilled and unaware of the boundaries of his giant vehicle. Unless he confesses, intent will be difficult to prove.

Motorists, cyclists, motorcyclists, and pedestrians all take risks operating on roadways. It's baked in. Ergo: Either the cyclists didn't know the risks, or they accepted the risks. I'm sure they have been "close-passed" many times before while riding in a large group. Yet, they keep doing it.



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Headpost

I'm on the side of the cyclists, but I would never, ever ride in the lane of a fast-moving road like that.

wolfchild

That's what happens when you ride 3 abreast ouside a bike lane or outside a wide paved shoulder, without a mirror on a busy road. This wouldn't of happened if they were riding in a single file and stayed on the bike lane or paved shoulder.

jon c. 

Reading the responses here I understand why drivers receive only minor penalties for such crimes.

indyfabz

indyfabz

Intent to what? Buzz people?

The mention in the OP about this being a civil matter is because that is what AZ's 3' passing rule makes it. Since no one died, the maximum fine in $500. That will not preclude civil lawsuits by the injured riders.

Wondering if there are higher minimum insurance requirements for RVs than there are for regular vehicles. I have never even been in an RV, but I have bene buzzed by some while touring.

drlogik 

Time to hire a pitbull-type motorcycle attorney. The RV driver should be held criminally and civilly liable. This in no way excuses the RV driver but I for one would never ever ride on a "highway" like that. A cyclist is just asking for an accident on a road like that when vehicles are passing at highway speed. Nope, no way.

Roughstuff

I am old fashioned, pokey rider as all of you know. And all *I* can say is simple; given the conditions as I see them in the video, there is no reason at all for anyone to be out of that shoulder. It is wide, it is clean, it is easy to ditch off of if you see a vehicle in your lane (or too close.)

Don’t give me this ‘peloton’ or ‘group ride’ bull ****. The bikes should be single file and far enough apart to allow swift adjustment if and when it is necessary. If I recall in the video other bikes couldn’t even stop fast enough to prevent a cascade of collisions. So if the RV driver gets a “pitbull defense lawyer” he will quickly point out how much the riders were comcerned with safety.

Much like motorcycles, bicycles are far more endangered and risky on the roadway. Acknowledge, accept, and embrace that risk, and ride accordingly.

Roughstuff

In many accidents the responsibility for the crash can be apportioned among the vehicle(s) (maybe more than two) once the circumstances become clear. With many cameras on the highway and incidentally on private property (ATMs, shoplifting cams, etc) this has become quite common.

jon c. 

When so many riders are effectively anti-cyclist we don't have much hope. In a decent and civil society there should be no reason riders would fear a road like that. But we accept and even encourage the idea that riders are somehow at fault because they got in the way. We have become increasing more self centered in recent years and the result is quite evident.

JoeyBike

I do not believe that anyone on this thread is anti-cycling. We ALL believe that cycling on roadways should be legal (with some obvious exceptions like Interstate highways).

Now speaking JUST for me:

1. Just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD. And if you DO anyway, as a cyclist, you should be as polite and cautious as possible to other road users even when they do not deserve it.

2. If it is legal to cycle upon a certain high speed / high traffic roadway then it is up to the individual cyclist to determine IF and WHEN they should venture out onto that roadway. I fully support individual freedoms to go out there anytime they damnwell please and even take the lane on a 60 mph highway. But I am NOT going to take anyone's side just because they ride a bicycle.

3. Humans are vastly imperfect. I would recommend to any cyclist to distrust every single road user and to utilize every safety mechanism available to them to enhance their visibility as well as giving motorists EVERY OPPORTUNITY to pass with care whenever possible. Still, some motorists will not see us or react in time to miss us. Which brings us to ....

4. If you cycle into the lion's den under your own free will and get bitten by the lion, please don't cry to me. That is a matter for the courts and/or the coroner. We must exercise our own personal responsibility.

Peace

Mtracer

RV driver was 100% at fault here. No excuse for hitting that rider. Doesn't matter if the rider should have been on the shoulder. You never have the right to just go full speed ahead a hit someone. Even in a situation where a vehicle has the right of way, you also have the responsibility to avoid a collision when possible. And he had no reason to pass so close.

Did that RV driver cut it close on purpose? I have no idea, if so then they deserve severe consequences. If it was just poor spacial awareness, then it goes into the s*%t happens category.

But regardless of the legal right and wrong, that's little consolation laying in the hospital. So, minimizing risk is something to do when riding.

While I understand the close riding the cyclist are doing, the fact that one rider brought down a dozen others is ultimately on them for riding so close.

Roughstuff

or, in so many words, embrace the brake!!!

Mtracer

in this case it seems the RV driver could have moved much further to the left to safely pass. But I swear, I think a lot of drivers never even consider the concept of just slowing down and staying behind a cyclist, or any other slower vehicle. That’s one reason I take the lane when there’s not enough room to safely pass. Make it clear to the driver, they’re just going to have to wait. But again, that wasn’t this situation.

jon c. 

Rather like saying you're against ****, but if a woman is wearing revealing clothing she's asking for it.

wolfchild

No he wasn't.... It's the cyclist who was riding outside the bike lane or outside the paved shoulder who was at fault. Just think about it for a second, one idiot on a bicycle could of killed an entire group of cyclists.

RCMoeur 

I'll have to say that may be the single most irresponsible statement I've ever read on BikeForums, and unsupported by Arizona law or legal precedent.

And, in the ways of the old ones... (*plonk*).

JW Fas

What was the mechanism that placed this cyclist in the path of others?

Mtracer

Nothing the cyclist did gives the driver the right to run them over, period. When driving, you NEVER have the right to hit anything just because it's in your traffic lane or you have the right of way. You ALWAYS have the responsibility to try to avoid a collision. Of course, it's not always possible.

This isn't a case where the RV driver didn't have a clear line of sight etc. The cyclist could have been stopped dead in the middle of the road, and the RV driver still doesn't have the right to run into them. NO MATTER WHAT. It makes no difference how many rules or laws another road user is breaking, it doesn't give you the right to hit them, IF you could reasonably avoid it.

JoeyBike

If a woman stands on a street corner in a red light district, dressed like a prostitute, she is sending a CLEAR message. And it works!

If she dresses the exact same way at a costume party, or even a bachelor party, then the jury is out on her intentions, but we should ASSUME that she is NOT advertising any services and we (men) should keep our hands to ourselves.

This is my official position on this matter and not the first time I've been BAITED with the ridiculous comparison of how certain women's fashion choices compare to people on slow moving vehicles playing in fast moving traffic piloted by unskilled, drunk, distracted, mean, mindless dolts.

Please explain.

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wolfchild

Just because something is legal doesn't mean it's always a smart thing to do....In this case there was absolutely no legitimate reason for the cyclist to be riding outside the bike lane or paved shoulder.

DangerousDanR

How the **** do you know? That is a US Forest Service road and they were traveling over 30 MPH. You act like they were riding on the Interstate. "Zeit mir moychel, Fehrt Geharget!"

Yan 

Do you have a driver's license? It doesn't sound like you do. Are you under aged? Or did you pay someone to take your exam for you?

Paul Barnard

Thanks for sharing your feelings with the group. Feelings certainly matter. How do your feelings measure up against the law?