Daniel4

Whatever happened to all those lessons drivers took at driving school especially the 5 points of driving and all those traffic laws. Rules are there for a reason. How many times have I seen drivers cut off pedestrians just as they step off the curb or walking across the crosswalk on their own walk signal? Too many.

Alan K

As I stated, rules work only if everyone follows them. If from that, you surmised that I am advocating that car drivers need not follow traffic rules, either I’m very poor in communicating or you are mistaken… may be both!

tomato coupe

It was an empty parking lot on a Sunday afternoon. It's a hard sell arguing 5 mph is a reasonable speed limit in that situation.

LesterOfPuppets

I think the school should put chains or gates up on the driveways on weekends to keep lost Floridians from driving around in the parking lot while looking at their GPS screens.

TC1

No, rules only work when enforced.

For example, we have a "rule" against murdering people. Not everyone follows that rule, but since it is pretty-well enforced, it generally works. In areas where it is not enforced -- mostly some inner-city neighborhoods -- that rule is widely ignored and does not work.

LesterOfPuppets

Looks like it took place at Central School. The driver entered the school grounds from Central Street, drove almost all the way through to Bedford Street before seeing that the exit to Bedford was gated off, then did a U-turn around an island of grass, then proceeded back towards Central Street.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/XWzTnGUq9Ur757us6

At the Central St. entrance there's a green sign for the MUP there that kinda makes the school driveway look like a street, which may have encouraged the driver to enter the school grounds. The Google Streetview car even drove into the parking lot, taking a similar path that this driver did.

Alan K

Thank you for pointing out the patently obvious!

In most civilized and well-functioning societies, if someone doesn’t follow rules, there are consequences for infractions and the society takes corrective actions.

Bleu

So the car should NOT have been there at all. Kids play on school grounds because it's where they are, the kid had no reason to expect a speeding car , especially on a Sunday. I agree that gates to keep out cars would have prevented this. As the crash was so ambiguous, because neither party was paying attention the adult should be charged with felony criminal trespass , at the very least.

tomato coupe

Cars aren't allowed in school parking lots on weekends? That's news to me. And, 20 mph is hardly speeding -- it's a typical school zone speed limit.

Bleu

20 in a parking lot is speeding. No; cars are not allowed in parking lots of closed businesses and government facilities. The school zone speed limit only applies to the highway/street going past the school. Technically the kid may be trespassing, but kids go where they're familiar ,which is the school - and they're kids. Aaand the person operating the car possibly has a license, even if it is a class D issued in Florida, and should know right from wrong.

TC1

If it is so patently obvious, why did you claim otherwise?

Rules do not -- as you claimed -- require complete compliance in order to work, which is fortunate, as complete compliance is never going to happen.

Only if, as recently explained, someone is enforcing those rules. Switzerland is the most "civilized and well-functioning" society on the planet -- by HDI -- and yet no one there followed the rules which apply to banking operations, because there's been no enforcement historically. Now that some enforcement is happening, we see that the Swiss were laundering money for all manner of criminals and degenerates.

tomato coupe

Neither the car nor the bicyclist were going close to 20 mph.

Alan K

Did I, where?

Do you not understand the meaning of word most?
I get the impression that you like to waste time of others… and I’m not going to reward you any longer by participating.

TC1

That's complete nonsense, since rules are not universally obeyed.

Don't spout nonsense, and I won't have to waste my time correcting you.

njkayaker

Waaay before you can see that little sign, the entrance looks like a school parking lot.

LesterOfPuppets

Oh that part of the post is gone. Welp, here's where I think she rode through. Cruise down that sidewalk for a bit, then cut right through where that white car is parked.

EDIT: now this references the post below.

njkayaker

Where was the cyclist coming from?

The building at the upper left is a Verizon facility (not a store). North of that is a las office. The other areas are private houses. It seems there might not actually be an easy way to get to where she came from.

Her path in the parking lot was about where the red line is. The driver's path is the magenta line.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ce...0gjl?entry=ttu

LesterOfPuppets

It does look like a school parking lot, but the long green sign also makes that north driveway look like a road, to me.

njkayaker

It looks overwhelming like a school parking lot. For a very long time. And before the little sign can really be seen.

If, somehow, somebody let the last-second view of the sign override the strong impression it was a school parking lot. the fairly long time actually driving in that school parking lot should have corrected any idea it was a street.

I'm not sure what your point is. That some how thinking it was a street explains running over the cyclist?

Chistophe516

I experienced something almost similar.


https://www.google.com/maps/place/Q+..._3jk?entry=ttu


In 1981(14yrs.-old), I was on Foxhall Rd. in DC, when. I made a right turn on to Q St.. As I was making the right turn, the driver behind me. Tried to pass me in the turn. My bike went halfway under her car. My pedal dug a quarter-size scar in my foot. The only way she knew she hit me, is. From my yelling at the top of my lungs. The driver who hit me, was older, and. A lot of other drivers' saw her do it. So, They kept her from fleeing.

njkayaker

That makes sense. Maybe she crossed the street from the CVS. Or she was riding on the sidewalk "contraflow" and took the short cut.

LesterOfPuppets

I'm of the belief that gating off that driveway while the school is closed would reduce the amount of traffic in the parking lot during closed hours. I presume there was a LOT more cut-through traffic before they gated off the Bedford St. driveway.

I also think that marking that MUP with something that looks much less like a street sign would result in a reduction in people from Florida from thinking they found a magic shortcut over to Bedford St.

njkayaker

That makes sense.

It makes much more sense that drivers knew it was a short cut than it does than people are thinking it's a street.

There might be reasons not to block that entrance.

I think the pictures from the road make the sign being a source of confusion a weak argument. The "fog line" isn't broken (as it would be for a street) and there's no crosswalk.

"People from Florida" are not likely to be aware of such shortcuts (that would require a fair amount of familiarity with the area). (The people seeing this as a short cut are locals.)

Even so, this collision was easy enough to avoid by both parties independently.

GamblerGORD53

Well no wonder she got lost. There isn't a square block within forty miles. I actually was 2 miles from there on the way to Cape Cod. Lucky it was a marked highway. Dead end cul-de-sacs all over. I doubt many of the locals can navigate many of those streets. Damn idiotic spaghetti streets are all they build now.
And I think you have all been misled by the half speed videos. They were going 12 and 15 mph I think. There was NO need for that girl to ride thru that bush.
There's actually both a Police and fire station only 200 yards from there.

flangehead

Though we certainly have some dangerous infrastructure in North America, a lot of damage could be averted by users that prioritize safe arrival over fast arrival.