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Is the price of entry really $2k?!?

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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Is the price of entry really $2k?!?

Old 03-23-14, 10:06 AM
  #101  
wphamilton
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Originally Posted by Heathpack View Post
I did almost this same thing. Took up road biking about a year ago, bought a Lexa C for $600. But I didn't last 3 years on it, just one. I have been bitten badly by the cycling bug. That entry level bike took me far- 3000 mi in year one, and an organized metric & regular century. I discovered that my "thing" is long distance riding and I wanted something better, lighter & more comfortable for long climbing rides. I just bought a BMC GF01, have had it one month. It is an absolutely fantastic bike, I totally love it.

I think buying a new entry level road bike is a great approach, it will let you get your feet wet and discover where you want to go with cycling. Then you can buy your "better" bike once you know more.

The one thing I read here frequently is that a "better" bike won't make you a better rider. This I would disagree with, pretty much every time I ride my BMC, I knock off multiple personal records. I am much more able to get done what I want to get done too.

H
After only one year of road biking, at age 49, I was also knocking off multiple personal records on every single ride. But I was still riding the cheapest road bike you could buy new. My anecdote doesn't prove much about your experience except for this: the personal records aren't proof of anything about the bikes.
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Old 03-23-14, 10:20 AM
  #102  
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Oh the joys of cycling that I'll never realize on 6700 and an aluminum frame.
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Old 03-23-14, 10:22 AM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by Heathpack View Post
Well, I have to say @SirHustlerEsq and @bikerjp, you are simply incorrect on this one. But this is way off topic for OPs question, so if we want to hash it out further, I suggest we take it to a different thread.

Its very silly not to consider sex/gender and intended purpose of a bike. No matter what I say, y'all will persist with your preconceived ideas (that the new bike makes me ride more, that the bikes handle equally). I'm happy to admit that for many people, a better bike might make no difference. But for mr, it has been an obvious turning-point in my training.

There I'm done unless one of y'all want to start a new thread on the subject.

H
I think they're suggesting that in your case the new bike is a bit of a red herring with respect to your training. What allowed you to improve your speed and training up hills was lower gearing and a shorter crank. Whether the lower gearing came with a lighter frame is largely irrelevant in terms of the quality of training it allowed.

What's important is having a bike that fits with appropriate gearing. You can achieve that by changing components or buying a new bike.
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Old 03-23-14, 10:36 AM
  #104  
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If you don't ride this year's $10k frame that has tape laid at a slightly different angle from last year's $9,999 frame, your body will collapse; if you don't have an 11th cog on your cassette, your ACL will tear; if you don't have a $4000 power meter you will be slow; and if you don't have $500 bibshorts you will die of saddle sores on the side of the road. Oh, don't forget the $4000 carbon wheels for casual road riding. Its simply impossible to enjoy riding without a $20k bicycle.
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Old 03-23-14, 10:58 AM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by Heathpack View Post
Well, I have to say @SirHustlerEsq and @bikerjp, you are simply incorrect on this one. But this is way off topic for OPs question, so if we want to hash it out further, I suggest we take it to a different thread.

Its very silly not to consider sex/gender and intended purpose of a bike. No matter what I say, y'all will persist with your preconceived ideas (that the new bike makes me ride more, that the bikes handle equally). I'm happy to admit that for many people, a better bike might make no difference. But for mr, it has been an obvious turning-point in my training.

There I'm done unless one of y'all want to start a new thread on the subject.

H
I never said a new bike would make you ride more or handle equally. Only that a new bike is unlikely to make one a better cyclist on its own. It MAY encourage you to ride more which is correlated with becoming better. It will likely handle differently as well as different geometries do that but better is subjective. Some say a race geo is twitchy others call it responsive.

Your unscientific observations are not proof of anything and are contrary to the observations of many others. Post some data. Merlinextraligh posted a nice summary of the differences between a 17lb aero bike vs a 25lb bike which is at least based on data. As many people have said, the difference is small.

The one difference that is big and maybe most important is owns own perception. There is no discounting a nicer, better fitting, more comfortable bike, but it will not by itself make you a better cyclist.
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Old 03-23-14, 11:24 AM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by bikerjp View Post
The one difference that is big and maybe most important is owns own perception.
This. If I made real money, I'd probably have a Speedvagen or Parlee with DA or SR, because it's so sexy. Its the same reason I wash my cars, make my bed, and keep my bicycles in a location in the house where they can be seen...they are sexy.
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Old 03-23-14, 12:51 PM
  #107  
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Whether I'm riding on a expensive bike or a budget econo-mobile (well maintained and tuned) I suffer equally regardless.
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Old 03-23-14, 01:13 PM
  #108  
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You can get a high performance road bike with lightweight alu frame and shimano claris group for under $800 this year, or a tiagra bike from last year for about the same price.

With tax, the cost of entry is right around $800.
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Old 03-23-14, 05:30 PM
  #109  
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$2K? I sure hope not. I just picked up a Felt Z85 for $1200 and change. I don't know about personal records, but I'm sure enjoying those weekend rides.
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Old 03-23-14, 06:45 PM
  #110  
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I have some vaguely scientific data to add from two rides I just took today.

I rode the same route twice on two different bikes. First, my cheap aluminum bike and second on a buddy's fancy carbon.

The first ride (Strava link) is on my 2002 Trek 2000 with 105 9sp (triple) componentry (save for the sora shifters) and some cheap aeromax wheels. It's pretty heavy, somewhere around 23lbs.

The second ride (Strava link) is on a 2006 Cervelo R3 with Easton aero wheels and full dura ace 10 sp (double.) It's ridiculously light. Something like 15.5 lbs.

While I did set some PR's on both rides, the only significant difference between the two was a 23 second gain on one ~8 minute climbing segment with the carbon bike.

My conclusion after today is that my $100 Craigslist bike (albeit with ~$450 additional into it) is almost as good for me as the $$$$ fancy carbon ride. Sure, I won't get as many, "Wow, cool bike!" shouts from kids on playgrounds as I whiz by, but that's not what I'm out there for anyway.

YMMV.
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Old 03-23-14, 09:29 PM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by rodentcloister View Post
$2K? I sure hope not. I just picked up a Felt Z85 for $1200 and change. I don't know about personal records, but I'm sure enjoying those weekend rides.
Yep. I had one of those...before some bastard stole it. Went just as fast as my first bike ($399 Fuji Newest), Giant Defy and my current bike. I keep upgrading...but I don't get any faster. WTH?
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Old 03-24-14, 07:25 AM
  #112  
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I don't know how much the Nashbar carbon fiber bikes weigh, but I picked one up yesterday and it was far lighter than my Trek (some guy racing next to me had one). Less than $1000 with extra discounts too, which is amazing. I would pick one up in the future when I consider upgrading.
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Old 03-25-14, 02:02 PM
  #113  
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Hey, I've been where OP has been not too long ago.

One thing OP has to his advantage is that the buy/sell bike scene in the bay area is insane. There are so many good bikes and deals that you can really find what you're looking for if you're persistent and act quickly.

I started out with a bianchi vigorelli w/ ultegra grupo which is a pretty decent beginner bike. Got it for about 500 after a tune. Got a 2005 bianchi eros w/ 631 reynolds tubing for 250 a few months ago w/ campy mirage. I just purchased my gf a 2013 specialized allez at 350. If you look, you will be rewarded.

Im not sure if other people have touched on this but it may be something to note, getting a 1,500 bike may not be advisable in the bay area as a beginner bike mainly because of crazy traffic and bike theft. I actually dumped my Vigorelli and the frame is unusable. Thankfully the groupset was still good. Not too bad of a hit but i'd be bummed if my new $1,500 bike was done a few months after buying it. Or even worst, stolen.

IMHO, I would figure out what you want: steel vs. aluminum vs. carbon fibre. If you want steel, get a Bianchi w/carbon fork and a decent groupset. If you want aluminum get an allez with a decent groupset. Both of these can be found easily for under $800 on craigslist.

if you want to shoot me a PM I can locate you some bikes.

Good Luck!
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Old 03-25-14, 03:22 PM
  #114  
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I've visited performance retail stores before. The staff are generally quite friendly and their selection was just amazing.

I spoke to the wrenches a few times as well, and they didn't seem very knowledgeable and didn't seem to take much care in assembling bikes. One wrench told me "we can have it ready in 30 min. We just slap 'em together." Not really confidence inspiring.

Perhaps this one outlet was subpar?

Originally Posted by JamesInSJ View Post
OP...another +1 to many of the comments here, and I'm also in the Bay Area (Fremont). Check out Performance Bike, especially as they're clearancing many 2013 bikes. It's always nice to have a shop help with sizing to get things right so you're comfortable. As you learn more and more and fitment (if you decide to learn), you'll be able to take care of more things on your own and buying used will be much easier.

Now speaking of used, you can definitely get some good aluminum frame road bikes with 105 components for ~$700-800 used. Perfect example...I'll be selling my 2013 Trek Madone 2.1 for about $800 in a few weeks after I build up my new bike around the frame I bought. That's an excellent value bike on the used size, good performer, good components. I bought and sold my previous 2011 Trek Alpha 2.1 for about $750 a year ago...similar bike with 105 components as well. If you need a 58cm size bike, hit me up. There is also a shop in Redwood City that's always posting GREAT deals on new bikes, usually 1-2 year old models that are brand new. Haven't been over there yet, but they have some very nice bikes as well as good sub-$1000 bikes. And you get the backing of a shop for warranty, tuning, etc.
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Old 03-25-14, 03:30 PM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by zupreme View Post
Hey, I've been where OP has been not too long ago.

One thing OP has to his advantage is that the buy/sell bike scene in the bay area is insane. There are so many good bikes and deals that you can really find what you're looking for if you're persistent and act quickly.

I started out with a bianchi vigorelli w/ ultegra grupo which is a pretty decent beginner bike. Got it for about 500 after a tune. Got a 2005 bianchi eros w/ 631 reynolds tubing for 250 a few months ago w/ campy mirage. I just purchased my gf a 2013 specialized allez at 350. If you look, you will be rewarded.

Im not sure if other people have touched on this but it may be something to note, getting a 1,500 bike may not be advisable in the bay area as a beginner bike mainly because of crazy traffic and bike theft. I actually dumped my Vigorelli and the frame is unusable. Thankfully the groupset was still good. Not too bad of a hit but i'd be bummed if my new $1,500 bike was done a few months after buying it. Or even worst, stolen.

IMHO, I would figure out what you want: steel vs. aluminum vs. carbon fibre. If you want steel, get a Bianchi w/carbon fork and a decent groupset. If you want aluminum get an allez with a decent groupset. Both of these can be found easily for under $800 on craigslist.

if you want to shoot me a PM I can locate you some bikes.

Good Luck!
I can't PM until I get 50 posts

But that would be great. I really don't even know what to look when looking through craigslist. I'm starting to get the components and brands down, but I don't know if there were changes from year to year that I should stay away from within the different component sets and/or bikes.
Thanks in advance.
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Old 03-26-14, 06:14 AM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by roadandmountain View Post
One wrench told me "we can have it ready in 30 min. We just slap 'em together." Not really confidence inspiring.
It's his job, he probably does ten per day. Relax.
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Old 03-26-14, 01:54 PM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by SirHustlerEsq View Post
It's his job, he probably does ten per day. Relax.
It's always odd that the person who is upset tells the other person to "relax."

My turn: "stop projecting." lol

What is your point anyway? Aside from your being mortally offended by my observation regarding the competence of performance bike mechanics.
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Old 03-26-14, 02:12 PM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by goenrdoug View Post
I have some vaguely scientific data to add from two rides I just took today.

I rode the same route twice on two different bikes. First, my cheap aluminum bike and second on a buddy's fancy carbon.

The first ride (Strava link) is on my 2002 Trek 2000 with 105 9sp (triple) componentry (save for the sora shifters) and some cheap aeromax wheels. It's pretty heavy, somewhere around 23lbs. ........................

YMMV.
Anyone else remember when 23 pounds was considered LIGHT?
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Old 03-26-14, 02:18 PM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by hockeyref View Post
Anyone else remember when 23 pounds was considered LIGHT?
I have only been riding a year or so, but apparently 2002 was when Trek, at least, considered 23 lbs to be "Super Light"
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Old 03-26-14, 02:21 PM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by hockeyref View Post
Anyone else remember when 23 pounds was considered LIGHT?
Hmm, really nice carbon and alu bikes were readily available by the late 80's. With lightweight dt shifters and 7 spd cassettes, and before skyrocketing component prices, 18-20 lb. builds were readily available for $2K and often far less. Carbon and ultegra only set you back $2K or so. Titanium was a bit more expensive, but lower cost litespeed showed up on the scene rather quickly after merlin established itself as a benchmark.

So even in the mid to late 80's, a 23 lb. road bike was never considered light. A steel bike with campy had to weigh under 22 lbs. to be considered relatively lightweight, and that standard was very quickly eclipsed by the alu, carbon and ti bikes which became affordable well before 1990.
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Old 03-26-14, 02:27 PM
  #121  
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If you spend 2k in 1987, that equates to 4k, inflation adjusted. For an 18-20lb bike with 7 speeds. Now you can spend 2k and get a CAAD10 with 11sp ultegra for 2 grand, or a carbon bike with 10 speeds for under 18lbs. So I consider that progress.
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Old 03-26-14, 02:38 PM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by SirHustlerEsq View Post
I love these stories people give about how an 11-speed cassette is making them faster and protecting the body from injury in a way that a 10-speed cassette can't. Old bicycles cannot turn and go around cracks in the road? Come on, lol.
I don't think she's claiming anything that's nuts. Her new ride is a full 5 lbs lighter than the old one (if that's a nonfactor, just lug an extra water bottle plus a half gallon of milk the next time you go out and see if it makes no difference), it's almost certainly in better mechanical condition, and I wouldn't doubt if it fits better and has better tires. Plus she's riding on hills where you'll notice all these differences.

A new bike won't change a slow rider into a fast rider, but if you're climbing or riding far enough, it will make a difference that you and people you ride with will notice.

How much difference it makes is debatable, but a couple minutes per hour (i.e. 3%) from weight, aero, fit, gear selection, and other benefits combined from a major upgrade seems quite reasonable. I'm much more skeptical about getting large gains from individual component upgrades.
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Old 03-26-14, 02:49 PM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by Gramercy View Post
If you spend 2k in 1987, that equates to 4k, inflation adjusted. For an 18-20lb bike with 7 speeds. Now you can spend 2k and get a CAAD10 with 11sp ultegra for 2 grand, or a carbon bike with 10 speeds for under 18lbs. So I consider that progress.
I never said there wasn't any progress in frame tech or components in the the past 25-30 years.

Point being that by the late '80's, 18 lbs was considered "light." So, when was a 23 lb bike considered light? I really don't know. Butted steel frames with campy and ultegra weighed in around 21.5 lbs, maybe a bit more at about that time.

Perhaps the 70's then? The 60's? It's been quite some time. At minimum, at least 3 decades.
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Old 03-26-14, 02:57 PM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by roadandmountain View Post
I've visited performance retail stores before. The staff are generally quite friendly and their selection was just amazing.

I spoke to the wrenches a few times as well, and they didn't seem very knowledgeable and didn't seem to take much care in assembling bikes. One wrench told me "we can have it ready in 30 min. We just slap 'em together." Not really confidence inspiring.

Perhaps this one outlet was subpar?
30 mins does allow some time for a little extra care putting a boxed bike together. Should take 10-15 mins to put it together, that leaves 15-20 mins for carefully adjusting brakes, derailleurs, etc.
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Old 03-26-14, 03:06 PM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets View Post
30 mins does allow some time for a little extra care putting a boxed bike together. Should take 10-15 mins to put it together, that leaves 15-20 mins for carefully adjusting brakes, derailleurs, etc.
The term "slap 'em together" was not confidence inspiring. This is not only true at performance, nor is it always true at performance. It was true for that particular outlet.

The best shops take their time assembling and adjusting your bike. This means adjusting brakes and derailleurs, truing wheels, checking and in some cases repacking bearings, as well as checking for proper torque on pre-assembled items. It also means a test ride to ensure that everything is properly adjusted.

My first two bikes were a shambles because they weren't properly assembled or adjusted; after those two lessons, I finally made a point of it to buy from shops who took pride in assembly and those bikes rode perfectly for a long time.
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