Walter S

Is it a "fillibuster" if I object to your definition? I have been uncomfortable with all of the definitions I've seen proposed. I think "car free" and "car light" are both best keep as loosely defined. Car free means "without a car". Car light means "less use of a car". Try to nail it down exactly and you'll get nowhere because no definition covers all the unique circumstances of people's lives. What do I mean by that? Read the endless threads on this topic.

wolfchild

AFIK there isn't one person on this forum that's truly car-free...Even those who don't own a car are not truly car-free because I am sure that they regularly bum rides from family members or friends or co-workers and regularly use ride share or taxis or busses. ( BTW busses are motor vehicles, so you're not really car-free if you use one)...
I am sure there are plenty of people who don't drive everyday and define themselves as car-light...car-free is just a buzz-word.

jon c. 

Unless you strip the term of the philosophical baggage and use it simply to denote not owning an automobile. The majority of car free people aren't against automobiles, they just don't own one. For them, car free means not making payments or paying insurance, fuel, maintenance and parking. From their standpoint, they're no less car free if they ride in the cars of others.

McBTC

There probably were horse-free folks in 1900 for similar reasons-- e.g., they're expensive and you need a place to put them and, all that horesh*t...

Machka 

This is the qualification for this forum:

"Do you live car free or car light? Do you prefer to use alternative transportation (bicycles, walking, other human-powered or public transportation) for everyday activities whenever possible? Discuss your lifestyle here."



And while some might be car free or car light because of financial concerns, not all of us are in that situation. Some of us choose to be car light because it is less hassle, it is more convenient, because we want to incorporate more fitness into our lives, or a number of other reasons.

If you truly think that going car light or car free would alleviate your financial difficulties, then do it.

In this forum, there may be a lot of bickering and fighting about a lot of different things ... but we aren't grumbling about $3000 transmissions in here because that's not what living the car free or car light lifestyle is all about.

mr,grumpy 

If your living car light and your transmission blows and you don't have the money to fix it then, BAM! You're now car-free.

B. Carfree

Silly question. Of course you need one more.

The number of bikes you have is n; the optimal number is n+1.

Machka 

Exactly!!



And so you start looking into other options ... the bus, cycling, walking ...

Machka 

Well, of course ....


We'd like to add a pair of penny-farthings and a pair of recumbents to the collection .... and then ... and then ...

Cyclist0108

How about those impure folks who take an ambulance to the ER when mortally injured, instead of getting conveyed on a trailer behind a bike?

Roody

I enjoyed your posts and the thread you started. I know it's tempting to stay away from the forum when you meet with rudeness and disrespect. But really, it's only a couple people who do that (granted they post about as much as the rest of us put together). These individuals are not carfree themselves, and as far a I can tell, their only reason for haunting this forum is to hassle and insult others. The mods evidently feel powerless to do anything about this. My only solution is to put them on your Ignore list. This is a forum function that will make their posts invisible to you. It isn't a perfect solution, but I think it's better than missing out on the good things this forum has to offer.

P.S. You can't expect others to always comment favorably on your posts. Life just isn't like that, and believe it or not, this forum is pretty tame compared to some of them. So when you post, be prepared for some strong blowback. People on forums enjoy controversy and disagreement. But ideally, this should at least be polite and respectful to you a a person. We should be able to attack opinions that we disagree with, while not attacking the person we disagree with.

Roody

No, I welcome debate and discussion. And I think I pretty much agree with your "loose" definitions. Actually, I have changed my own position on this topic several times as a result of arguments from other members.

My wish for consensual definitions comes from my observation that we sometimes spend more time quibbling about words than we do discussing the actual issues behind the words. This semantic quibbling becomes frustrating and tiresome, and usualy leads nowhere-- as can be seen in a couple recent threads.

Machka 

Which forums in particular? This is the worst forum within Bikeforums ... with the possible exception of P&R . People on this forum, on the Living Car Free forum, enjoy controversy and disagreement more than they enjoy casual, light-hearted conversation.


Please don't be condescending. You know ... steve-in-kville has been around a while. Since 2008, as a matter of fact. He has been in the Long Distance forum, the Commuting forum, the Utility forum, the Touring forum, and several others ... he's not an inexperienced poster. The only mistake steve-in-kville made was to assume that this forum was as friendly and easy-going as the others.

Roody

In my mind, forums are 99% user written, and the only ones to blame or praise are the users. Mods can only do so much.

I think this forum is mostly real good. Most of the current beefs are tame compared to the current political and social situations all around the world. The best thing to do si try to stay focused and on-track. As carfree cyclists, we have a lot in common and we should try to keep that in mind when we are disputing about some issue.

However, carfree living is obviously related to several political, economic, and social situations--whether you approve or not. You seem to mostly like to talk about lighter subjects, while many are more interested in these other issues, and possibly most are interested in both "light" and "serious" topics. You really don't have to read or post in threads that bore you. Just move along and eventually you will find a topic that you like.

Machka 

And most of the other forums within Bikeforums are great! This one, not so much ... but the rest are lovely, friendly, informative, supportive, interesting places.

Rowan

My decade-plus without owning a motor vehicle started after the car I owned dropped a valve. I forunately was able to find someone to pay me some money to tow it away, and I used the money to buy a bicycle. The rest is history, of course.

Money (saving thereof) was part of the mix, along with being reasonably close to my workplace, the lack of bus services late at night when I finished my shift, and my recovery from what was thought at the time to be heart attack. My decision at the time was NOT based on political or environmental reasons.

Ekdog

Whew! Glad you cleared that up. Had you pegged as a left-wing, tree-huggin' hippie.

mr,grumpy 

I humbilly submit to you that if you have found no desire to save up for a used car in EIGHT YEARS then you are un-likely to buy one if you found $10k some where. You have other priorities. Perhaps your famly can not exist car free but I think that you ahve shown that you can.

I-Like-To-Bike

Exactly.
In addition, grumbling about the cost of family expenses, whether it be for transportation for members of the family, (or additional housing required to shelter the family, children's education, extracurricular activities or orthodontics) because someone would prefer to spend household money on his personal hobbies, is immature if not unseemly.

stew6371

I wish Oklahoma was more bike friendly also. It's not bad around campus but I don't go there much. Lol.

baldilocks

In this forum, there may be a lot of bickering and fighting about a lot of different things ... but we aren't grumbling about $3000 transmissions in here because that's not what living the car free or car light lifestyle is all about.[/QUOTE]

In your opinion.

Many of you miss the whole intent of this thread. For some of us, owning a vehicle is a necessary evil. Some of us used to work on our cars before they became over complicated. Some of us are on tight budgets and don't have 21 bikes at our disposal. We love to ride and wouldn't mind a new bike. It just so happens that both of those repairs would have bought a new bike at my LBS. A few of you understood. And for those of you with better fortune, I hope it continues. Perhaps you can get one one of your many bikes and ride off into the sunset. In my thread, anyone that thinks they are car lite, can be car lite. You can argue all you want, your still wrong.

I like Trolls but I prefer an Ogre.

Walter S

I could afford all kinds of crap. I believe in living more simply. I do own a fleet of two bicycles. One of which stays rideable.

Walter S

Why do you post about minivans on the LCF forum?

winston63 

This line of thinking is one reason that I initially started going car light and reducing my dependence on motor vehicles. I simply got tired of putting money into vehicle operation, maintenance and repair and found that riding a bike was a perfectly suitable substitute for driving in many situations. Over time I came to love cycling and now I only drive as a last resort (and I despise every lousy second of it).

Like you, I'm not car free. But I may go weeks without driving and that suits me just fine.

There's no question that for me, dramatically reducing the amount I drive has had a significant positive impact on my finances. In fact, going car light has enabled me to save money more effectively than I ever have as an adult, and I've been able to put that saved money towards bikes & gear and will continue to do so as the mood strikes.

Sangetsu

I used to buy a new car every three years. When your car is never more than three years old, you never have to worry about repairs. But buying a new car every three years leads to about $8000 lost due to depreciation; the moment you drive the car off the lot, it loses a significant amount of it's value. What would I have done with the money if I had not spent it on cars? I would have spent it on something else, so the net result would have been the same.

Now I am self employed, and my office is in my home. I live in the center of Tokyo, with all necessary shops being nearby. I prefer to ride my bike rather than use the train or subway, when weather allows. If I need to go somewhere by car, I can call a car and driver at any time.

You might think that the money you spent on car repairs as money wasted, or at least not spent on something you would rather have. But the mechanics, parts makers, delivery drivers, and dozens of other people ended up with at least a little bit of what you spent. And they will of course spend that money to buy other things, and somewhere down the line, a little bit of that money finds it's way back to you.