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An underrated aspect of cycling as a sport is ...

Old 09-12-19, 12:59 PM
  #76  
AlmostTrick
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Recap.

Only Racers are actually participating in a sport, and are better than cyclists who donít race.

Cyclists are better than people who merely ride bikes.

People who ride bikes are better than noobs.

With practice and not necessarily all that much time, itís easier for a newbie on a bike to fit in with in a higher group, than it is for a cyclist to learn how to play tennis.

BF doesnít fail to disappoint!
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Old 09-12-19, 01:08 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
I'm going to go ahead and call BS on this.
Really? (Next you're going to tell me I like vanilla ice cream more than chocolate ...)

I don't get why this is so difficult for some people to grasp. Some sports have a steeper learning curve than others. Mike Woods became a pro cyclist a couple of years after he started riding and was on the World Tour a couple years after that. He could do this because his w/kg mattered far more than his lack of skill. He certainly wouldn't have been able to succeed as an elite mountain biker so quickly. A track star can become a good wide receiver pretty quickly, he can't become a quarterback. No golfer ever was able to be a pro after only a couple of years. High skill sports take years to develop. Road cycling is not a high skill sport. It just isn't.
Tracy Austin won the US Open less than one year after turning pro ... and that's just as irrelevant to the discussion as Mike Woods. Neither is representative of average participants in either sport.
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Old 09-12-19, 01:40 PM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Really? (Next you're going to tell me I like vanilla ice cream more than chocolate ...)
No, I'm saying you're unwilling to admit you're wrong, even when it is obvious. Furthermore, there are plenty of cyclists who, after two years aren't "erratic and can't pull smoothly in a pace line". I've never heard of a tennis player who isn't "erratic" after two years. That's the point.

Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Tracy Austin won the US Open less than one year after turning pro ... and that's just as irrelevant to the discussion as Mike Woods. Neither is representative of average participants in either sport.
One year after turning pro isn't the same as one year after just picking up the sport.

Do you deny that some sports are more skill based than others?
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Old 09-12-19, 01:48 PM
  #79  
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I do believe the slap fight has started in earnest.
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Old 09-12-19, 02:01 PM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
No, I'm saying you're unwilling to admit you're wrong, even when it is obvious.

You've played tennis about a hundred times in your life, and you've been on less than a hundred group rides. I've done more than that this year alone. So, how can you possibly tell me I'm wrong when I say my reaction would be similar in the two scenarios you offered?

One year after turning pro isn't the same as one year after just picking up the sport.
As I clearly stated, neither case is relevant to the discussion.

Do you deny that some sports are more skill based than others?
No, but I never addressed that issue.

It is my opinion that reaching an equivalent level of competency in tennis and cycling requires roughly the same amount of time (and effort). I think your mistake is thinking that riding in a group indicates a higher of competency than it really is.
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Old 09-12-19, 02:02 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
I do believe the slap fight has started in earnest.
Some people live to argue.
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Old 09-12-19, 02:06 PM
  #82  
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Probably too late to add a serious reply at this point, but I agree with the OP in terms of having enough stamina to hang with your friends/neighbors/kids/whomever on a casual weekend ride and not being the guy who goes home early because he's exhausted.
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Old 09-12-19, 02:07 PM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
I do believe the slap fight has started in earnest.
I was trying to find a SFW screenshot from the fight scene in Tour de Pharmacy but couldn't find one before I lost interest.

Anyway, that was an amusing movie and at least as entertaining as a BF fight.
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Old 09-12-19, 02:20 PM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
So, assuming someone wants to learn, how many rides do you think it takes for them to be able to ride decently? Not perfectly, not expertly, but good enough that you don't resent the fact that they are there or feel unsafe around them? 15? 20?
.
Just to be clear I don't "resent" anyone being on a ride. I do feel safe or unsafe depending on the rider. There's no number involved. It's more about willingness to listen, observe and learn. You have your own standard, no doubt. No reason to suggest that mine are excessive or wrong. They are mine. Not suggesting anyone else has to adopt them.
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Old 09-12-19, 02:21 PM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
You've played tennis about a hundred times in your life, and you've been on less than a hundred group rides. I've done more than that this year alone. So, how can you possibly tell me I'm wrong when I say my reaction would be similar in the two scenarios you offered?
Because it's blatantly obvious. I've ridden with guys who have 30 years of experience cycling and fit in just fine. I've played, briefly, with competitive tennis players and it was obvious within about 5 seconds that I did not belong.

Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
As I clearly stated, neither case is relevant to the discussion.
You said that, but since it is an example of someone being able to pick up a sport quickly, I don't agree. IMO it is relevant.
Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
No, but I never addressed that issue.
It's kind of what this whole thread is about.
Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
It is my opinion that reaching an equivalent level of competency in tennis and cycling requires roughly the same amount of time (and effort). I think your mistake is thinking that riding in a group indicates a higher of competency than it really is.
Do you remember when I pretty much said this exact thing? Here it is again:
Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
... his whole point is you don't need to reach an equivalent level of competency in cycling. In cycling you can participate, without detracting from the experience for others, with only a base level of competency and that base is attained fairly quickly.
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Old 09-12-19, 02:38 PM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
Because it's blatantly obvious.
You've should have just told me there was only one acceptable answer when you asked me what my reaction would be to the two proposed scenarios. It would have made it easier for me.

I expressed my opinion that I disagreed with the OP when he stated:
IMO it would take a person much longer to become an above-average recreational tennis player than to become an above-average recreational cyclist

Why is it so hard for you to accept that my opinion is different?
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Old 09-12-19, 02:49 PM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post

I expressed my opinion that I disagreed with the OP when he stated:

Why is it so hard for you to accept that my opinion is different?
Perhaps because we appear to be discussing two different things. The OP's clarification is not the same as his OP.

I'll just say that my position, which is what I think the OP was intending is: a cyclist with above average skill can ride with a cyclist who has below average (but not terrible) skill without any detriment to their enjoyment. The same is not true for many other sports.

And with that, I think I've wasted enough time on this.
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Old 09-12-19, 03:04 PM
  #88  
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You can do it by the seat of your pants. See what I did there?
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Old 09-12-19, 03:09 PM
  #89  
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What a thread! It's not even Winter yet!
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Old 09-12-19, 03:59 PM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
You get bonus points for correct usage of an ellipsis!
Lol! I owe it all to Strunk & White.

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Old 09-12-19, 04:31 PM
  #91  
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What exactly are these skills that are so difficult to master in cycling that would enable me to ride with a group and that can't easily be acquired? The first time I rode with a group, a serious group that is, was many years ago. I don't remember having to master any particular skills. The most difficult part of the ride was keeping up, and that was simply physical fitness.
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Old 09-12-19, 04:38 PM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by jackb View Post
The most difficult part of the ride was keeping up, and that was simply physical fitness.
There's your answer. It's what you don't know you don't know.
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Old 09-12-19, 05:51 PM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by jackb View Post
What exactly are these skills that are so difficult to master in cycling that would enable me to ride with a group and that can't easily be acquired? The first time I rode with a group, a serious group that is, was many years ago. I don't remember having to master any particular skills. The most difficult part of the ride was keeping up, and that was simply physical fitness.
Well, just off the top of my head: whether you can hold your line, whether you can pedal a high cadence smoothly, whether you can look back or take a drink without wobbling, whether you can take a pull without accelerating, whether you can draft without letting a gap form, whether you can bump elbows without freaking out, whether you can stand without shoving your bike back, whether you can follow your wheel smoothly through a corner.
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Old 09-12-19, 05:58 PM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by caloso View Post
Well, just off the top of my head: whether you can hold your line, whether you can pedal a high cadence smoothly, whether you can look back or take a drink without wobbling, whether you can take a pull without accelerating, whether you can draft without letting a gap form, whether you can bump elbows without freaking out, whether you can stand without shoving your bike back, whether you can follow your wheel smoothly through a corner.
+ how to avoid going down if you rub wheels with the person in front of you, and what to do if you're the front person in that scenario.
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Old 09-12-19, 10:09 PM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by caloso View Post
Well, just off the top of my head: whether you can hold your line, whether you can pedal a high cadence smoothly, whether you can look back or take a drink without wobbling, whether you can take a pull without accelerating, whether you can draft without letting a gap form, whether you can bump elbows without freaking out, whether you can stand without shoving your bike back, whether you can follow your wheel smoothly through a corner.
Are you kidding me? These things are skills? Perhaps in the pro peloton, but for the rest of us? How many years does it take to master looking over your shoulder without wobbling. Do you practice bumping elbows so as to become proficient in not freaking out? Most cyclists I see on the road appear fairly adept at following their wheels through a corner. Mastering these so-called skills doesn't quite seem up to becoming a good tennis player or hitting a curve ball. And who rides like this anyway? Perhaps cycling club members do and racers, but what percentage of cyclists do they make up? At any rate, the more you ride the better you get at controlling your bike up to a point, but I believe that that control comes rather quickly, certainly a lot more quickly than keeping your golf score below 70 or your batting average above .275, pro or not. Speed and endurance come from improved fitness.

But I will not deny these so-called skills are important for certain kinds of riding. I just don't see them as taking long to develop.
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Old 09-12-19, 10:29 PM
  #96  
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if you're 50 and you're thinking about trying out basketball at the local YMCA, don't! You'll get your ass thrown around like a rag, and then only to get knee pain down the road. Stick to cycling.
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Old 09-13-19, 07:23 AM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
if you're 50 and you're thinking about trying out basketball at the local YMCA, don't! You'll get your ass thrown around like a rag, and then only to get knee pain down the road. Stick to cycling.
Yeah. I'm 40 and I still play basketball regularly. It's definitely the sport where I most feel my age. My days of playing it are definitely numbered.
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Old 09-13-19, 07:47 AM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
if you're 50 and you're thinking about trying out basketball at the local YMCA, don't! You'll get your ass thrown around like a rag, and then only to get knee pain down the road. Stick to cycling.
But the in terms of cycling, what many people are talking about is not five-on-five at the local Y; but rather, shooting hoops in the driveway, solo.
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Old 09-13-19, 08:04 AM
  #99  
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Not that I relish fanning the flames, but I had this thought/question as I was riding yesterday.

There are thousands and thousands of people who make a living teaching tennis in the U.S. Same for golf. How many professional cycling coaches are there? I presume that elite-level cyclists get coaching, but in tennis, it's not uncommon for all levels and ages of players get private coaching. Go to most any tennis center, and you can get a tennis lesson. Similar with golf. Is it true that tennis players, golfers, baseball/softball hitters & pitchers are more likely to seek out private coaching than cyclists? If so, why? And if so, would this be evidence that these sports have different learning curves and different challenges in terms of skill development?
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Old 09-13-19, 08:28 AM
  #100  
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Originally Posted by CoogansBluff View Post
There are thousands and thousands of people who make a living teaching tennis in the U.S. Same for golf. How many professional cycling coaches are there?
Unless you normalize by participation, you're just talking gibberish.
(and no one who only hits a tennis ball against a backboard is taking lessons.)
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