Chain compatibilty for Suntour V-GT Luxe derailleur
#26
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+1 on the SRAM 8 speed series chains used them on many 5 and 6 speed builds and have them on 2 of my own bikes and soon to put one on a 3rd, like them
#27
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I can't help you on the proper chain, but the V-GT luxe is a fantastic derailleur. I'm still running the original on my 1976 Motobecane Grand Touring and it keeps doing the work.
#28
Full Member
The narrower the chain, the more this becomes an issue. With the 7/8 speed chain, you can probably break and rejoin the chain "old style," but by the time you get to 9 and 10 speed chains, this is no longer recommended.
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#29
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But even in the 7-8s days, out on the popular mtb trails that I frequented, it was common to come across riders with a broken chain, and the first thing that I always asked was if they had recently broken and reconnected their chain. So often the answer was "yes".
If one looks with a magnifier at a pin from any modern chain after it's being pushed clear out of the chain (as when shortening the chain), one can clearly see that the quad-staked peening or circular ring of metal (depending on what model of chain it is) at the end of the pin that has passed through the link has been sheared off, never to be reestablished.
And on any ride, one never knows when a particular shift will generate the sort of random leverage of the sideplate sufficient to pop it right off of the sheared end of one of those pins.
So I always try to plan ahead so as to never have to reconnect a chain more than once, so I never come up short of a needed special link or connecting pin. I myself would only ride a bike with a chain improperly connected if it were an emergency, i.e. the difference between riding or walking. It will probably hold for some time if shifts are only made under no power, but I sure don't ride like that unless I have to.
I think that it is the case that the industry more or less failed to communicate intensely enough the importance of ONLY using a special connecting link or pin when connecting their modern chains. Sure, the instructions were in the package, but riders who had connected chains the old-fashioned way over the years might not even have suffered through the multi-lingual instructions that usually seemed like a redundancy. A warning flag should have been secured to both ends of those chains in the early days of modern-style chain.
I also warn folks about using rusty old chains that are so prone to breakage.
#30
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One thing not mentioned yet (or I missed it) is the cable. Modern cables and housings are much nicer than older ones. If your cable is dirty the friction can make shifting sluggish. New cable and housing will do wonders.
Do NOT let a bike shop person sell you housing for an indexing derailleur. It will be too stiff. Insist on brake housing. Also with friction shifting you may need very little. Brifter cables need more.
Do NOT let a bike shop person sell you housing for an indexing derailleur. It will be too stiff. Insist on brake housing. Also with friction shifting you may need very little. Brifter cables need more.
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Last edited by jimmuller; 08-31-19 at 05:39 AM.
#31
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One thing not mentioned yet (or I missed it) is the cable. Modern cables and housings are much nicer than older ones. If your cable is dirty the friction can make shifting sluggish. New cable and housing will do wonders.
Do NOT let a bike shop person sell you housing for an indexing derailleur. It will be too stiff. Insist on brake housing. Also with friction shifting you may need very little. Brifter cables need more.
Do NOT let a bike shop person sell you housing for an indexing derailleur. It will be too stiff. Insist on brake housing. Also with friction shifting you may need very little. Brifter cables need more.
But I often suffer through the (at times seemingly endless) search for just the right ferrule that might allow me to use the stiff stuff instead of using brake housing.
There is a reason for this, stiffer housing makes the feel of the shift lever(s) feel more directly connected with the derailer(s), so "hysteresis error" is quite noticeably reduced, for "earlier" shifting action out at the derailers.
I seldom see any issue with the housing being to "stiff", other than with electro-forged Schwinn frames, where it is nigh impossible to install modern derailer housing between the stops surrounding the bottom bracket. There's no way to incorporate ferrules there anyway, so I use lined brake cable housing at that location every time (with the vinyl covering stripped back to allow it to fit).
One more thing is that if one can (by habit, or by virtue of running out of lever travel) limit the "peak" in the cable pulling force, using derailer housing without any ferrule becomes feasible, at least it has worked for me over thousands of miles so far.
And again, the shifting improvement is quite real, especially when the cable is cut carefully to just the right length.
Shown below, I ran derailer housing directly into this Simplex derailer, and it has prerformed well over 3k miles with zero issues.
But anyway, it can be worth it to source the right ferrules as well, so I usually do.
Now as far as trusting your local bike shop to do this sort of work to high standards on an old vintage bike... (Ok, that was harsh, but results may vary!)
Last edited by dddd; 08-31-19 at 09:56 AM.
#32
Senior Member
A little background for those that weren't around, since it's not often discussed. There were two sizes of chain being used when the V-GT was still being sold: regular width (7.8mm) and ultra or narrow (7.2mm). Both will work fine with that derailleur. Internal width and pitch is the same. I can't recall exactly when the Ultra size came out -- sometime in the late 70s.
The regular width 7.8mm chain is no longer available. The ultra/narrow chain was BITD either a Suntour Ultra, or a Sedisport. The narrow width was later adopted as the standard for 7 speed when it came out, and subsequently 8 speed.
All chains were attached and removed by pushing the pins partly out. There was no other way. All links were the same. Only cheap bikes with 1/8" chains used master links. Peened pins were introduced in the 90s when they became necessary, as narrower chains were required for 9+ speed systems.
Chains generally only ever 'broke' if they were reattached incorrectly. This wasn't that hard to do if you didn't know what you were doing. The old UG chains were always prone to getting screwed up because of the bulged plates. I don't think I've ever seen a broken chain that actually snapped. I'm sure it could have happened sometimes, but I've never seen it.
Nowadays it seems as if there's only one or two chains around that may still have unpeened pins. Unless you're extremely sure, best to follow the manufacturers' instructions. Quick links in general make things easier, so if your chain comes with one, use it!
The regular width 7.8mm chain is no longer available. The ultra/narrow chain was BITD either a Suntour Ultra, or a Sedisport. The narrow width was later adopted as the standard for 7 speed when it came out, and subsequently 8 speed.
All chains were attached and removed by pushing the pins partly out. There was no other way. All links were the same. Only cheap bikes with 1/8" chains used master links. Peened pins were introduced in the 90s when they became necessary, as narrower chains were required for 9+ speed systems.
Chains generally only ever 'broke' if they were reattached incorrectly. This wasn't that hard to do if you didn't know what you were doing. The old UG chains were always prone to getting screwed up because of the bulged plates. I don't think I've ever seen a broken chain that actually snapped. I'm sure it could have happened sometimes, but I've never seen it.
Nowadays it seems as if there's only one or two chains around that may still have unpeened pins. Unless you're extremely sure, best to follow the manufacturers' instructions. Quick links in general make things easier, so if your chain comes with one, use it!
#33
What??? Only 2 wheels?
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FWIW the only time I ever broke a chain was when a quick link apparently came apart.
Also FWIW I've had cases where modern shift housing, the kind with multi-strand coil, was so stiff it prevented the RD from swinging outward because the housing didn't want to bend around the DO. Since precision isn't so critical with friction shifting it was a price not worth paying.
Also FWIW I've had cases where modern shift housing, the kind with multi-strand coil, was so stiff it prevented the RD from swinging outward because the housing didn't want to bend around the DO. Since precision isn't so critical with friction shifting it was a price not worth paying.
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Real cyclists use toe clips.
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jimmuller
Real cyclists use toe clips.
With great bikes comes great responsibility.
jimmuller