Why are bike weights "unavailable"?
02-07-20, 04:42 PM
#52
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The lumber yard had to put out a disclaimer a few years ago that 2X4s do not in fact measure 2"X4",
so it's likely that auto makers have to worry as well...
02-07-20, 04:46 PM
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I didn't have the patience to read all the responses but you should get a hand held scale designed for weighing luggage. I got one and find it quite useful. They are quite reasonable in price. Mine has a nylon strap that loops around the top rail on a bike nicely.
Note- Most of my bikes are heavier than I thought. I have a 5 yr old Trek Marlin 6 29r with kickstand and Topeak rear rack / bag set that is pushing close to 40 lbs. Still rides great though.
Note- Most of my bikes are heavier than I thought. I have a 5 yr old Trek Marlin 6 29r with kickstand and Topeak rear rack / bag set that is pushing close to 40 lbs. Still rides great though.
02-07-20, 05:05 PM
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Bring your own scale to the store and weigh it yourself....AFAIK most bike manufacturers list bike weight on their websites.
02-07-20, 05:10 PM
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Interesting how many bike frame maker apologists are out there. Meanwhile you can get lots of weight detail on just about any bike component, some clothing, certainly helmets, even lights and fenders and bike racks. Getting the weight even on a $5K Sworks frameset in size eg. 52cm.. no.
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02-07-20, 05:17 PM
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The cynic in me says that bike weights are unavailable because publishing them would lead the inquisitive to the knowledge that QC on cheaply built CF frames can be poor. (I used to build fiberglass sailboats. We had patterns for all the primary fiberglass and tight control of the tapes we used to do secondary bonds so most of the weight differences were in resin used. There were so many variables that dictating the resin for a given part was a recipe for lower quality end result. Still, we could get 800 pounds of hull, deck and some woodwork bonded into place to within 50 pounds boat to boat. In fact the final boat, half lead keel by weight to usually that 50 pounds.
But - we were good. We prided ourselves with building the best wet layup polyester fiberglass boats anywhere. (Those boats were built from the early '70s through the '80s. Old school fiberglass, wet layup mat and roving, mat and cloth, vacuum bagged balsa, wet out with brush and roller. No excess resin. (We sprayed only the getcoat.) The 24' boats we built weighed 2050 lbs and were sea-worthy (and fast enough) enough to be the favorite for single handed racing to Hawaii for years.
Modern pre-preg simplifies the process a lot. One, time is no longer a factor. In our day, the faster you worked, the better the final job you could do. With pre-preg, vacuum bagging and double molds on all parts, good wet-out is a given and no voids in the final part is a matter of good tooling, care using the vacuum equipment and care laying in the cloths. Time in layups with pre-preg is all about cost savings and more bikes cranked out, not about working fast to stay ahead of a catalyzed chemical.
Ben
But - we were good. We prided ourselves with building the best wet layup polyester fiberglass boats anywhere. (Those boats were built from the early '70s through the '80s. Old school fiberglass, wet layup mat and roving, mat and cloth, vacuum bagged balsa, wet out with brush and roller. No excess resin. (We sprayed only the getcoat.) The 24' boats we built weighed 2050 lbs and were sea-worthy (and fast enough) enough to be the favorite for single handed racing to Hawaii for years.
Modern pre-preg simplifies the process a lot. One, time is no longer a factor. In our day, the faster you worked, the better the final job you could do. With pre-preg, vacuum bagging and double molds on all parts, good wet-out is a given and no voids in the final part is a matter of good tooling, care using the vacuum equipment and care laying in the cloths. Time in layups with pre-preg is all about cost savings and more bikes cranked out, not about working fast to stay ahead of a catalyzed chemical.
Ben
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02-07-20, 05:23 PM
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Why should the whole industry invent some standard (like that could ever even happen (look at bottom brackets) what would the manufacturer gain?
First, some manufacturer would come up with its own standard and tell everyone that its bikes were lighter than everyone else’s … and because no one would read the fine print, they would get a competitive advantage, at least for a while.
And what’s the upside? Zero. Some customers would make decisions based on a the difference of a few grams—never have ridden either of two or more bikes in consideration—and the company which was most honest with its weights would lose sales for a number which in all likelihood doesn’t really relate to anything
My sub-16-lb (with pedals) Workswell hit the road at 22 lbs because I carry food, tools, tubes, spares, sometimes two water bottle, sometimes weather gear, computer, two head- and tail lights …. But it is still a bike I can lift with one finger.
Someone would see “22 pounds” and think, “What a porker …. I wouldn’t ever ride a bike that weighs that much,” while never having weighed his or her own bikes in actual, about to go on a very long ride, trim.
How much does that bike weigh? With or without which kind of pedals? Botle cages, and how many? Lights? Computer:? Computer mount and waterproof case? Saddle bag? What tools/tubes/parts? A Powerbar, two gels, both? A banana?
How many people got out their digital fish scales and weighed their bikes a minute before a long ride?
Frankly, I’d bet a lot of people would get turned off by cycling if they found out here “6.8 kg Wunderbike” actually hit the road a 11 kg. We all make So much fuss over a few grams, and go nuts over a few hundred grams …. I know I have, and I know I have been in discussions where others have …. And we haven’t even bothered to Weigh Our Own Bikes.
I actually enjoy seeing people’s interest wane when they ask how much my bike weighs and I say “22 pounds.” Because I know their bikes probably weigh 20 … and the difference is that I over-prepare and overpack, not that the bike is overweight. But people really don’t get it. I could say “Sub-16 pounds,” but it isn’t as much fuun as being able to close their minds for them …. More robots in the populace …..
On top of All that …. I can generally find a reasonably approximate weight for a bike by ….. Doing Research.
I go to bike reviews, and Some sites/online magazines actually accurately report the weights (showroom weights, as a rule) of the bikes they test. Also, I have found weights listed in “comments” sections of websites reviewing bikes.
The data isn’t Readily available, but it is Generally available.
When the entire bike industry decides on a single bottom-bracket standard, I will then believe they could come up with some honest weight-determination formula (no pedals, cages, accessories, medium frame, one weight per build option …. Really not hard … to Conceive.)
But then … so far no one has come up with a way that listing honest weights would help The Manufacturer. And the folks who sell bikes aren’t going to do it for the benefit of the consumer.
First, some manufacturer would come up with its own standard and tell everyone that its bikes were lighter than everyone else’s … and because no one would read the fine print, they would get a competitive advantage, at least for a while.
And what’s the upside? Zero. Some customers would make decisions based on a the difference of a few grams—never have ridden either of two or more bikes in consideration—and the company which was most honest with its weights would lose sales for a number which in all likelihood doesn’t really relate to anything
My sub-16-lb (with pedals) Workswell hit the road at 22 lbs because I carry food, tools, tubes, spares, sometimes two water bottle, sometimes weather gear, computer, two head- and tail lights …. But it is still a bike I can lift with one finger.
Someone would see “22 pounds” and think, “What a porker …. I wouldn’t ever ride a bike that weighs that much,” while never having weighed his or her own bikes in actual, about to go on a very long ride, trim.
How much does that bike weigh? With or without which kind of pedals? Botle cages, and how many? Lights? Computer:? Computer mount and waterproof case? Saddle bag? What tools/tubes/parts? A Powerbar, two gels, both? A banana?
How many people got out their digital fish scales and weighed their bikes a minute before a long ride?
Frankly, I’d bet a lot of people would get turned off by cycling if they found out here “6.8 kg Wunderbike” actually hit the road a 11 kg. We all make So much fuss over a few grams, and go nuts over a few hundred grams …. I know I have, and I know I have been in discussions where others have …. And we haven’t even bothered to Weigh Our Own Bikes.
I actually enjoy seeing people’s interest wane when they ask how much my bike weighs and I say “22 pounds.” Because I know their bikes probably weigh 20 … and the difference is that I over-prepare and overpack, not that the bike is overweight. But people really don’t get it. I could say “Sub-16 pounds,” but it isn’t as much fuun as being able to close their minds for them …. More robots in the populace …..
On top of All that …. I can generally find a reasonably approximate weight for a bike by ….. Doing Research.
I go to bike reviews, and Some sites/online magazines actually accurately report the weights (showroom weights, as a rule) of the bikes they test. Also, I have found weights listed in “comments” sections of websites reviewing bikes.
The data isn’t Readily available, but it is Generally available.
When the entire bike industry decides on a single bottom-bracket standard, I will then believe they could come up with some honest weight-determination formula (no pedals, cages, accessories, medium frame, one weight per build option …. Really not hard … to Conceive.)
But then … so far no one has come up with a way that listing honest weights would help The Manufacturer. And the folks who sell bikes aren’t going to do it for the benefit of the consumer.
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02-07-20, 05:34 PM
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I can only find one post by you, and even knowing it is meant to be sarcastic, I don't get the sarcasm. Obviously, I have much learning to do. 
But you agree. That is wise ....
If you ever hang out with British people .... there is a culture which has mastered deadpan, understated sarcasm. The folks I have met were masters. I am only an egg.
But you agree. That is wise ....
If you ever hang out with British people .... there is a culture which has mastered deadpan, understated sarcasm. The folks I have met were masters. I am only an egg.
02-07-20, 05:38 PM
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02-07-20, 05:47 PM
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i personally don’t care how much my ride weighs. I’m not competing with anyone but me, myself, and I. And I really don’t care if weights are listed on web sites. Actually, I find listing the weight of a pair of biking socks pretty absurd.
02-07-20, 05:53 PM
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Well if you think it is so unacceptable that some companies do not list weights, then don't buy from those companies.
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02-07-20, 06:11 PM
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People in this forum are not typical.
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02-07-20, 06:19 PM
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I'm surprised that REI doesn't give weights. They were one of the only places that provided weights when I was shopping for a bike a few years ago. They stated that the weights were based on the middle of the size range for any given model. Maybe it's too early in the season for them to have tested the new models.
Weight is going to be a really touchy spot for marketing a bike, because it can't be smothered in confusion or subjectivity. It's one thing for experienced cyclists to tell you the relative importance of weight versus other factors. But if a bike maker tries to tiptoe around the issue, people will suspect that it's for just one reason.
One bike maker's website had a careful explanation about how they couldn't provide weights, and coincidentally, a number of online reviews mentioned that their bikes are heavy.
Another problem is that bike "makers" don't have a chance to test a new line of bikes before they are shipped directly from the factory to the dealers.
Weight is going to be a really touchy spot for marketing a bike, because it can't be smothered in confusion or subjectivity. It's one thing for experienced cyclists to tell you the relative importance of weight versus other factors. But if a bike maker tries to tiptoe around the issue, people will suspect that it's for just one reason.
One bike maker's website had a careful explanation about how they couldn't provide weights, and coincidentally, a number of online reviews mentioned that their bikes are heavy.
Another problem is that bike "makers" don't have a chance to test a new line of bikes before they are shipped directly from the factory to the dealers.
02-07-20, 07:51 PM
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I just chuckle at some of these threads. For most of us recreational cyclists, how much is a 1/2 lb or 1 lb going to affect your life when you are on that bike? If I was so uptight about weight I would eat better, ride more and drop 20 lbs and kick ass up those mountain roads instead of celebrating just making it to the top without stopping. Geesh! What's for dessert?
02-07-20, 07:56 PM
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Cars are a totally different ball of wax. Auto manufacturers are required to list weights and car weight is rarely a selling point, or a factor for buyers. When there are significant variations among a model (like different engine or trim levels) they list weights for each version. Toyota has three versions of the Camry listed on their website TRD, L and XSE V6, and publishes a different weight for each one individually) Beyond that, most options don't change the weight significantly enough to matter.
There is no small, medium, large Toyota Camry versions, for instance, so the process of publishing a standard weight for a Camry is more simplified than it would be for a bike manufacturer, which often has 5-6 different frame sizes, combined with 3-4 different spec levels for a single model.
There is no small, medium, large Toyota Camry versions, for instance, so the process of publishing a standard weight for a Camry is more simplified than it would be for a bike manufacturer, which often has 5-6 different frame sizes, combined with 3-4 different spec levels for a single model.
02-07-20, 08:54 PM
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I just chuckle at some of these threads. For most of us recreational cyclists, how much is a 1/2 lb or 1 lb going to affect your life when you are on that bike? If I was so uptight about weight I would eat better, ride more and drop 20 lbs and kick ass up those mountain roads instead of celebrating just making it to the top without stopping. Geesh! What's for dessert?
(And Guinness.)
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02-07-20, 10:07 PM
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If you are concerned about how much a mountain bike weighs, don't ride it near mountains.
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02-07-20, 10:35 PM
#68
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The fact that some manufacturers do list weights is proof that it can be done and presumably they're not getting sued when persnickety Pete finds his new purchase is a fraction over the advertised weight. In a similar vein, car makers regularly publish performance times which were achieved under ideal conditions that are almost impossible to reproduce by the average driver yet they survive the legal onslaught.
And to the argument that components change mid-cycle does not hold water. The only components a manufacturer could change mid-cycle without having to re-advertise it as a new model are minor (generic seat posts, bars, saddle etc.) and it's not like they can't specify that a substitute doesn't stray too far the spec weight. I mean, how much weight would you have to add to a seat post such that the advertised weight is no longer within advertised range?
To be sure, weight is not that important but it is useful information. Just like 1/4 mile times in a family car are not relevant to the road, bike weight is useful as a comparison tool when comparing various models and particularly when one stands out as significantly heavier (or lighter) than others which makes you ask why.
When I don't see a weight published I always think what are they trying to hide?
So stand on the side of publish the weight. It's not like its hard to do.
And to the argument that components change mid-cycle does not hold water. The only components a manufacturer could change mid-cycle without having to re-advertise it as a new model are minor (generic seat posts, bars, saddle etc.) and it's not like they can't specify that a substitute doesn't stray too far the spec weight. I mean, how much weight would you have to add to a seat post such that the advertised weight is no longer within advertised range?
To be sure, weight is not that important but it is useful information. Just like 1/4 mile times in a family car are not relevant to the road, bike weight is useful as a comparison tool when comparing various models and particularly when one stands out as significantly heavier (or lighter) than others which makes you ask why.
When I don't see a weight published I always think what are they trying to hide?
So stand on the side of publish the weight. It's not like its hard to do.
02-08-20, 07:45 AM
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So, the OP would rather be given numbers that may be unreliable than be told the number is unavailable.
This inclination is not uncommon, and leads to a lot of misinformation.
Yes, weights are given for all sorts of components.... and they are often very wrong.
Standardize how to weigh bikes and make the whole industry abide?......
HAHAHAHAHAHA
They have never even managed to standardize how to measure tire widths.
This inclination is not uncommon, and leads to a lot of misinformation.
Yes, weights are given for all sorts of components.... and they are often very wrong.
Standardize how to weigh bikes and make the whole industry abide?......
HAHAHAHAHAHA
They have never even managed to standardize how to measure tire widths.
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02-08-20, 08:29 AM
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Well, I'm not going to buy a frame weight unknown, be the same as buying a bike where the bottom bracket specification wasn't listed.
Long story short I got a Soma frame, because the weight for a specific size is listed on their website. The size weighed wasn't my size but knowing the weight gave me a good idea of what mine would weigh and it ended up being within a reasonable bound. I've since bought 2 more frames from them because of this.
So, good advice. If a company can't or won't disclose relevant product specifications - buy from somewhere else, don't perpetuate poor business practices.
Interesting side note, it appears that the mountain bike boom contributed to the de-listing of bike weights - at least for Schwinn. In the early 90s MTB popularity really took off, as did their relative weights - 30+ pounds for a regular 26" MTB was common. It's not a stretch to assume that perception of road cyclists towards the heavy bikes was very negative. Schwinn stopped listing weight in 1993. Schwinn catalogs, 1991 - 2000
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02-08-20, 08:33 AM
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02-08-20, 08:40 AM
#72
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I figure the manufactures who list the weight make the lightest, most flimsy bikes.
02-08-20, 08:43 AM
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I just chuckle at some of these threads. For most of us recreational cyclists, how much is a 1/2 lb or 1 lb going to affect your life when you are on that bike? If I was so uptight about weight I would eat better, ride more and drop 20 lbs and kick ass up those mountain roads instead of celebrating just making it to the top without stopping. Geesh! What's for dessert?
I'm a recreational cyclist myself. I weigh my bikes. I'm a curious character, and I'm not afraid of the truth. I don't ride the lightest bikes out there. My single speed roadster built from spare parts is 22 pounds, and my dedicated winter bike built in a 1972 Schwinn Varsity frame weighs... a bit more
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02-08-20, 08:50 AM
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I just chuckle at some of these threads. For most of us recreational cyclists, how much is a 1/2 lb or 1 lb going to affect your life when you are on that bike? If I was so uptight about weight I would eat better, ride more and drop 20 lbs and kick ass up those mountain roads instead of celebrating just making it to the top without stopping. Geesh! What's for dessert?
02-08-20, 08:52 AM
#75
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Few years ago I went looking for a steel disc frame. Found the Surly Straggler, looked good for what I wanted but there was no weight listed on the very comprehensive spec sheet. I emailed the company and they replied with the same justification as many of the posters in this thread - production changes can lead to differences in the frame and fork weight such that they didn't share a number. So then I asked for a range of weights to expect - no reply. If production changes swing the weight so much they can't share it - what in the world was I going to end up with?
Well, I'm not going to buy a frame weight unknown, be the same as buying a bike where the bottom bracket specification wasn't listed.
Long story short I got a Soma frame, because the weight for a specific size is listed on their website. The size weighed wasn't my size but knowing the weight gave me a good idea of what mine would weigh and it ended up being within a reasonable bound. I've since bought 2 more frames from them because of this.
So, good advice. If a company can't or won't disclose relevant product specifications - buy from somewhere else, don't perpetuate poor business practices.
Interesting side note, it appears that the mountain bike boom contributed to the de-listing of bike weights - at least for Schwinn. In the early 90s MTB popularity really took off, as did their relative weights - 30+ pounds for a regular 26" MTB was common. It's not a stretch to assume that perception of road cyclists towards the heavy bikes was very negative. Schwinn stopped listing weight in 1993. Schwinn catalogs, 1991 - 2000
Well, I'm not going to buy a frame weight unknown, be the same as buying a bike where the bottom bracket specification wasn't listed.
Long story short I got a Soma frame, because the weight for a specific size is listed on their website. The size weighed wasn't my size but knowing the weight gave me a good idea of what mine would weigh and it ended up being within a reasonable bound. I've since bought 2 more frames from them because of this.
So, good advice. If a company can't or won't disclose relevant product specifications - buy from somewhere else, don't perpetuate poor business practices.
Interesting side note, it appears that the mountain bike boom contributed to the de-listing of bike weights - at least for Schwinn. In the early 90s MTB popularity really took off, as did their relative weights - 30+ pounds for a regular 26" MTB was common. It's not a stretch to assume that perception of road cyclists towards the heavy bikes was very negative. Schwinn stopped listing weight in 1993. Schwinn catalogs, 1991 - 2000