ofajen

Sorry but it is only geometrical increase with power 2. An exponential increase is some number (the base) raised to the power of x, which would be the velocity in this case. That function increases MUCH faster than just squaring the number.


Otto

ofajen

If you are interested, you could review the differences between polynomial functions and exponential functions.

Otto

burnthesheep

The Ironman crowd is an interesting bunch. If you have the money, I can see a brand using the math to bolster purchases.

I'm still a fan on starting with the cheap stuff at low speeds. Tires and tubes, not wearing flappy stuff, training, good bike fit, etc.... I think expensive stuff like aero frames and wheels are best if you have money to throw down and are starting to get a bit quicker. Folks are free to blow the cash I guess, it's theirs.

Their claims on CdA or watts might be lacking due to the sales incentive, but the concept that a slower rider will save more time than a faster rider on the similar "purchase" is non-debatable math. If the gain is true.

To Ironman folks who can't train any more hours (and are still slower), and who are spending 5 hours on-course on a bike......the prospect of saving 5 minutes over that can be alluring. If the product works or not is up for debate. Might not. But, if the gains are remotely accurate........the time stacks up.

They'll sometimes lose out on qualifications or age group awards by 30 seconds or so. So spending disposable income to gain minutes is a no brainer to them. Not my sport, so I try not to judge too much.

livedarklions

"If the gains are true" is really begging the question, though. I'm not sure who would sign up to be the subject of "does x product actually improve the performance of mediocre riders" testing, but I sure see a lot of really slow cyclists on expensive bikes wearing very expensive aero kit.

Kapusta

Doh! You are correct, I used the term incorrectly. Yes, that would be pretty brutal wind resistance.

ofajen

Strong tailwinds would be exciting, perhaps terrifying or even deadly!

Otto

Kapusta

Thanks for that link. I need to go back and run through the math more. One thing is striking me as odd:

When explaining the math they use, they are STARTING with assuming a given reduction in F(drag), and recalculating C(drag). What they SHOULD be starting off with is a reduction in C(drag). It seems to me they are putting the cart in front of the horse, since when we talk about how "aero" something is, what we are talking about is the coefficient of drag.

However, in the chart at the bottom, they seem to be using consistent differences in C(drag) - which makes more sense.

Also, how long it takes you to go a given distance is one way to look at this. How far you go in a given time is another way. I am interested to use those velocity differences to see how that works out. But I have to get back to work.

Metieval

doing both makes people faster.

Spin one day. smallest gear 100rpm 1 hour

Mash another day, biggest gear 60 rpm 1 hour

3rd day bring those 2 extremes together, and boom faster.

I can guarantee you, that if you do this, you'll NEVER complain about doing intervals again. Forcing the Extreme of or the other is mental suicide. torture......

Kapusta

Little late to the party, that's been covered

GeneO 

Yep

70sSanO

I’m not sure about faster, but mashing would have really helped my mountain biking. That is the major downfall I have. Not having that slow powerful grind when you can’t get out of the saddle (spin tires).

John

Metieval

you skipped the part in quoting me that makes a person faster.

"bring those 2 extremes together, and boom faster."

It's because 1 day your train spinning, and on another day your train strength, and when you bring spinning+ strength together in a ride then you will be faster.

70sSanO

I didn’t skip it. I just didn’t confirm the speed part. Up to a certain grade I can just spin up. I can’t confirm someone at 60rpm in a higher gear will be faster than I am at 90rpm in a lower gear.

I realize you are talking about training, but the real life situation are climbs that are beyond my spinning range. On dirt I couldn’t get out of the saddle and not lose traction. At that point, low cadence power is king.

John

Metieval

2 separate issues, one is about Fitness, , and then later fitness applies to real life riding.

But a rider can do training rides, and must do training rides to get faster. 2 huge ways to get faster , but not limited to these 2

1 intervals
2 train only spinning, and train only mashing tallest gear riding slow, for an hour

#2 is how I retrain strength after an injury. Reworking a shoulder is Deliberately slow extensions, and then holding, and doing sets of that. Driving into the fatigue zone. So Large chain ring small cog, flat ground, and Drive that pedal down Intentionally riding slow. do it for 1 hour It will hurt I promise.

#2 training #2 will also help your sitted climbing on a normal RL ride. But the Faster averages will come from combing the training of 1 + 2 .....

u235

My take... Those things don't make you faster, they allow you to go quicker. To those taking score, there is a competitive advantage in any efficiency. Those not taking score there is far less an advantage other then your own piece of mind maybe? I could swap my heavy regular old jack of all trades gravel bike for a $7k superbike and full blown kit and I am absolutely positive I'd get a lot of PRs but is that really perceived as a personal accomplishment or achievement? Not in my mind. If score mattered and I had the money, I'd take every potential advantage I possibly could but I would still be aware of what gains I made and what was gained by better equipment. Riding a bike should always be as efficient as possible and nothing wrong with that but what are you shooting for?

HTupolev

The claim about slower riders saving more time on the same course is correct, but it's definitely a marketing-driven perspective.

On average, weaker endurance athletes tend to partake in shorter events. And even when that's not the case, the relative speed change is what's most pertinent to how people tend to perceive gains: improving your 100m dash by 1 second feels absolutely astronomical, while improving your century ride by 10 seconds feels like nothing.

It's similar to how fat-tire salespeople always talk comfort in terms of "volume." In practically any other context, the main number that gets thrown around for the "size" of a suspension system is its linear travel, but because bicycle tires happen to get wider as they get taller, salespeople can talk about 25->28 being a "25%" gain rather than a "12%" gain. It's true that a 28mm tire has about 25% more volume than a 25mm tire, but it's hardly going to conform around 25% larger bumps before bottoming out or whatever.

pullings

#1 (!!!) Train. A more structured training plan brought me from 15-ish MPH average to over 16.5 MPH average on my longer 30+ mile rides.
I started simple when I built my fitness base: 3 rides a week ---> Two rides for 1.5 hours each, third ride for 2.5-3.5 hours.
I fit in a forth day with a slow 4-5 mile run.
85%+ of my riding is at 65-70% of my maximum HR. I'll do a few tempo-rides 80%+ max HR from time-to-time.
Once you have a good base, you can get more specific and mix in a structured hill & interval routine which will help you get faster also.
#2...Keep a log. Log every single ride along with times, HR zone, distance and ride notes. This will allow you to track you performance improvements over time. Provides feedback to you on what works as you adjust your training routine.
#3....loose some weight.
#4 Good tires. I went with some better tires (I went thin, @90lbs) and got good results. Maybe someday I'll try a good wider tire as everyone seems to say these are faster now? Anyway, this helped me become a little bit faster.
#5 Gear....loose fitting shirts and shorts slow you down. Road-bike gear is more comfortable and faster.
#6 Aero wheels. This is perhaps the easiest single thing I have done to my road bike that gave me a real speed increase. My average speed increased by over 3/4 mph for all my routes. The faster you are, the greater the improvment you will realize.
#7 Get the drag out of your riding style. Use drop bars
#8 Pack some energy food for your longer rides.....it took me almost 3 years to figure this out. I can go farther/faster without feeling bonked at end of the ride by simply snacking on a PB&J sandwich. I cut mine in quarters and feed on them throughout ride at even intervals. Gels work also.

I started at 15MPH .....after two years I now regularly do over 17.5 MPH average ( ZONE2 HR....I never drift outside ZONE2 HR on long rides). I think 18MPH is within reach if I can find a group to that can challenge me. On intervals and longer tempo rides I'm faster than that.

ofajen

With credit to Grant Petersen, never underestimate a fig bar.

Otto

fietsbob

Note the fastest bikes are recumbent and the body is shaped like a fish..

Mulberry20

all of the above plus 300 milligrams of caffeine, 2 or 3 grams of creatine and 6 grams of citrulline malate.

Pre Jym supplement is my favorite.

Bigbus

Yours maybe!

70sSanO

Thanks for the advice. At my age my PB’s are so far behind me the numbers become a blur. But you did get me thinking about slowing down my cadence and grinding up hills in a bigger gear. If nothing else it will get me stronger when I go back in the dirt.

John

LSUFANDAN

I own a 2021 Specialized Diverge Comp Carbon and have been riding for less than a month. Im another new cyclist that went with a gravel bike for my first bike. I’m doing about 14 mile rides so far. I’m a noob so I am doing all the typical noob stuff. I have plain flat pedals. I’m wearing plain clothes. I’m not even sure I like the way my bike is setup really. My bike is in stock form. I’m 43 years old, 6’1” and weigh about 175 lbs. So far I feel good. I’m using my Apple Watch to keep track of my rides. I’m not sure how accurate the Apple Watch is really. I did my first ride with average speed over 15mph today. I feel like I can go faster. I’m riding by myself mostly with no goals set. No training plan or anything. Just using cycling for my cardio over jogging. I don’t know why but I want to go faster 😝.



My arm hair is probably slowing me down

livedarklions

It's been my observation that the supposed speed advantage of recumbents is never the case in the real world. Seriously, I have never seen anyone actually riding one on a road or path in excess of about 16 mph. I've definitely never been passed by one.

Mista Sparkle

Compared to many here I am still a newb, but there are easy things! Tuck in your shirt, I'd guess .3 mph or more? It feels like something. Watching the HR, are you at similar exertion as running?

Keep at it, chase faster people, but maybe not on the MUP... I personally can ride harder longer trying not to get dropped than on my own.

Unrelated to this quote but the OP, is the 14mph quoted average for the ride or over segments or sections? average speed of a ride can suffer substantially if you add a couple of stop lights or drink breaks or whatever. I find I can do ~18-20mph on flat roads for many miles but still have a ride average of ~16-17 after I include stop signs, avoiding pedestrians, and what not on the way back home. Don't worry too much about overall average, as it does not take much to drag it down.

Also, it may be fun to hammer on an occasional strava segment, but you may blow up and not be able to maintain a similar pace the rest of the ride. Don't let this get to you if you see people setting PR's, especially if shorter.