Mountain Mitch

What to carry? Tubes!

I run them on our MTBs. I find the benefit minimal and the downside steep. I have had two complicated repairs so far this year (compared to none in many years of tubes) and have returned one bike to tubes. I'll probably do the other before next years riding season. The pseudoscience of biking says they are better. Life experience says nonsense unless you live somewhere where small thorns are a regular hazard.

cyber.snow

Running out of time in the Idaho Mts., first snow was yesterday and now it is time to pack up and head for warmer territory. I will leave my MTB tourer here and take the Trek DS and bags South. The Trek has the G1s and is tubeless. As we will be riding prolly 80% roads and 20% desert trails and gravel will keep the G1s on for a while. This summer we rode close to 1K miles with no flats, so no complaints there,

edthesped

Care to elaborate? I have just switched to tubeless after >6 flats this year. Though it's still waay too early to tell if it will be a good thing or not so far no complaints or praise. Once tubeless becomes doable without sealant I feel it will be mature enough to replace tubes altogether with sealant being used as a preventative measure.

The only downside I see to sealant right now is that if I do flat and need a repair getting a tube in the tire might be a bit messy. If I get two flats the sealant wont address prior to my passing a bike shop I'm screwed as I only carry one tube, something to consider. So far packed repair kit has stayed the same, (1) tube, a patch kit, 5mm & 4mm Allen Wrenches, a crank bros multi 19, tire levers, a couple yards of duct tape wrapped around a pen barrel that my son carried through Philmont, two nitrile gloves, a 12" square of old cotton t-shirt, a few varied bandaids, a couple antiseptic wipes, alcohol pads and one single use packet of triple antibiotic ointment. Somehow I manage to squeeze it all into a Novara K.E.G. that I got on clearance for $2 because of the name change...

skookum

I used tubeless on the southern third of the Divide, (the thorny part) with no issues, my buddy had 4 or 5 flats due to thorns. I have to admit I'm not fully confident as to what to carry for repairs, I had a puncture kit and some extra sealant, as well as a spare tube and patches. I didn't need any of it.

I would give a tentative thumbs up to tubeless, but if you are unsure, stick to tubes. Tubeless may not offer any significant advantages for paved road touring in the absence of thorns.

staehpj1

It will vary what each rider considers significant, but tubeless is a little lighter (even accounting for the sealant) and also has the same effect as having a more supple side wall. That means a more supple livelier ride. That could be significant to those who value those specific properties in a tire. I know that it is for me.

skookum

I have read that tubeless doesn't perform as well in narrower higher pressure tires. I don't know if this is generally the case or just one persons opinion.

Personally I find that in a loaded touring situation I have to increase the tire pressure enough to negate the effects of a supple tire. I switched from compass back to schwalbe because they performed better under higher pressures and higher load.

I am quite happy with tubeless in bigger tires for off pavement riding. It will be interesting to see how much they penetrate the narrower higher pressure tire market.

Rob_E

Yeah, that's the part I don't get. I understand if someone doesn't want to go tubeless, but once you do it, it seems like the biggest downside is that you might still have to use a tube sometime. If that's a downside, then how is using tubes all the time a better route?

I don't think tubeless is better for all situations, and you can't just ignore the existence of tubes because they still become the last ditch solution to a flat tire, so I can understand wanting to stick with what you know and what's the norm. But I don't understand when people talk about the potentially bad consequences of going tubeless, because I don't understand what those consequences are. It seems like the biggest, tubeless failure has you riding away with a tube in your tire.

Mountain Mitch

Downside: one set of tires, Schwalbe Rocket Rons, certified 'tubeless, diffused so much air through the sidewalks they flatted every day and needed pumping before every ride. Tried everything - replaced tubes.
Other tires, Maxxis High Rollers, simple puncture near a knob. About 7mm cut on the outside, 1 mm on the inside. The sealant would not fix the tire. Held well enough to finish a ride; flat by next morning. Repeat. I finally removed the tire, cleaned out the sealant, patched the inside of the tire with a tube patch, sealed the outside with Shoe Goo (google that to see how many 'tubeless people are using it), replaced. Now it takes about a week to flat.

Both were a PITA. Constantly checking pressure and refilling. I could detect no compensating improvement in ride (despite what all the magazines tell you). At best, you are supposed to replace the sealant very few months. Somebody is making a lot of money off this trend!

Why spend the time and money for a gimmick?

staehpj1

Having run tubeless I see most of the negatives folks list to be nit picking or even just looking for reasons to not go tubeless. On the other hand I do agree that they diffuse air a little faster. I never had them lose air as fast as you did except once with brand new tires and another 2 ounces of sealant was the fix. I suspect that maybe I lost a little sealant in the seating in process. After that they lost air only slightly faster than they did with tubes.

To me topping off tires every few days on tour is not a big deal and that is about how often my tubeless need topping off. I'd even be okay with topping off daily for the more supple ride if necessary, but I have not found they lose air that fast.

I found that I went from weekly thorn flats to zero flats when I went tubeless. I found the ride nicer and more supple and a little weight reduction was nice. I don't consider either a gimmick.

BTW, when considering weight reduction consider that with a conventional setup there are two tubes in the tires and probably two spares. With tubeless I'd carry only the one spare tube. So in the weight tally I'd lose the weight of 3 tubes and add the weight of 4 ounces or so of sealant (4 ounce per tire at most even with fat tires) for a modest weight reduction. It may not be huge, but it is a small perk.

Granted not everyone lives where they get thorn flats often and not everyone cares much about a little extra weight or a little more or less supple ride. So tubeless may not be for everyone, but it does offer significant advantages for some folks.

My biggest concern was that I might not be able to seat the tires without a compressor (or installing a tube). In practice I have found that I could seat new tires even with a small pump and once seated and run a while, I expect they would seat easier the next time. Easy seating may not be the case for all rim tire combinations, but it was for my Stans wheels and tires.

Rob_E

Well, if your downside is that tubeless tires don't hold air, then, yeah, I would call that a steep downside, and wouldn't use tubeless either.

But I haven't experienced that. I probably pump my tubeless tires up more than my tubed ones, true, but we're talking every few weeks. If I have to do it twice in a week, something is wrong. I dare say that having to pump your tires from flat on a daily or weekly basis is not a common issue or tubeless would be way less popular.

chrisx

The learning curve is high.
Learnig is worth the trouble.
All above problems come from improper instilation.
Try again.

Air does not leak through the side wall of a tire. It does leak through a bead not properly sealed to the rim.

Did you skip the step ar 3:19 in the video? Did you use bubbles to check the seal? Did you throughly clean the rim and tire bead before instilation?

Do not give up. Take the time to learn. Tubeless is better.


Before I install tape, I scuff the inside of the rim with a scotch brite. Then I clean it with brake cleaning fluid. The surface to be taped is scuffed and clean. I do not clean with windex or simple green, or any household cleaning product. because they leave a film. Tape sticks better to a scratched surface than it does to slick paint. I do not tighten the valve stem with pliars. I do make it as tight as possible with my fingers. I do use soap bubbles to check the bead for leaks. I do use a compressor, not a floor pump.

The learning curve is high, and worth the trouble. Do not be an old dog, do learn a new trick.