khuon

Yep... several actually. Euclid, Olympus, Centaur and Themis initially. Then came Icarus and Record-OR. They were beautiful well designed groups albiet heavy. You had the choice of the thumbshifters or Bullet Shifters (twist-shifters). Campy had 8-speed when Shimano was still 7 at the time. The cranks had some goofy splined interface for the inner chainrings reminescent of how one would stack a cog onto a freewheel cassette. There was a lockring and everything.

Maelstrom 

To be honest he is right. I would wager a large bet that if you took the number of people ACTUALLY freeriding it is very insignifigant compared to average riders/xc guys. I obviously don't have numbers but the saint gruppo is directed at a very small and at this point pretty insignifigant group of riders in the sceme of the entire mtb scene.

TimB

not at hand but based on bike sales, XC hardtails and Full sus bikes rule the roost. if any of these are being used for freeride then they're doing so outside of intended application. FR and DH rigs are a very small part of the total pool of MTB's out there.

I don't know the weights of any of the cranks you mention.

what is the BAAAAAAD experience Math? did they fail (assumption) because you hit a tree (failure would be rather un surprising) or did they fail because of another reason

tell that to my downhilling Buddy Krazy"J" who arrived at many events with bent rotors. He swithed to Saint and now he does'nt have that problem anymore because it's easy to remove the rotor and store it nice and safe. also no special torq's bolts to loose...

actually that was the point all along. They are listening and therefore with update the XT shifter by creating a cross between the RF+ XTR shifter and the outgoing XT. In any case the RF+ shifters were always available so you always had the choice. So it's not just a case of Shimano listening but more of them reinforcing their product line by continuing with an alternative line.

daskobtimburt

Three days ago the long-awaited, much anticipated, slightly used but new-to-me '04 bike arrived. So beautiful, so light, so perfect. Until it was time to adjust the integrated XT shifters, that is. Oh, NO! After a short, gentle test ride, my thumbs were screaming,and my nerves were causing pins-and-needles sensations in my fingers and wrists. OK. "No problem" I thought, "I'll just make a few adjustments, dial them in, and everything will be fine." HA! Many hours later, after bringing my old bike over to compare, with much measuring,figuring,and moving of the new components I only seemed to have discovered, to my horror, that the new shifters/brake levers probably will never ever work for me. Of course, because they are one-piece, I cannot get the thumb shifters where they need to be in relation to the brake lever so that I can ride with my customary habit of one or two fingers on the outside end of the brake levers, and still be able to quickly push the thumb levers, if need be. Of course, the same thing goes for the thumb lever-finger lever relationship, because the brake lever doubles as the finger lever. Well, duh, I should have known that, it's only obvious, even without ever trying or even seeing them! The trouble doesn't end there, though! Even when adjusted to come as close to the handlebar as possible, I don't think I will be able to shift with any fluidity at all, unless I grow new, longer thumbs, and even then, because of the fixed spacing between the thumb and finger shifters, I have to reach way over the top of the bar to shift the finger levers if the thumb levers are in a position where they are even a little functional for me! OH BEAUTIFUL BIKE WHAT HAVE THEY DONE TO YOU?!! Made you virtually unshiftable, that's what! My old bike is the same in many ways as my new bike, same basic frame geometry, just that the old bike is all aluminum with mostly stock middle of the road components, four years older, and the new bike is lighter, being made of aluminum and carbon fiber, built up with xt components, and other light stuff. The new bike also has disc brakes. After the initial set-up of my old bike, (replacing the long stem with a shorty and adding a handlebar that had the correct rise and sweep for me) I never, ever had screaming thumbs, (OUCH!!) irritated nerves causing numb fingers, or sore wrists, all of which I experienced after just a few minutes of gentle riding on the new bike. Oh, and the thumbs kept on screaming for hours and hours, while I was still attempting to figure out some kind of compromise with the fixed geometry of these levers. Now, after an exciting weekend which included a late night trip out of town to the emergency vet for my oldest, extremely well loved dog,(she's all better now, little sleep for me friday night night though)a computer hacker trying to rip me off saturday night, (three hours sleep total that night), and a short trip out of town sunday to see the Jeep King of the Mountain race, I am totally sleep-deprived, but can't sleep thinking of my new bike, which I love, and the new shifters, which I hate! Just looking at the bike makes my heart rate go up (in a good way), just thinking about those shifters makes my blood pressure go up (in a bad way). Tomorrow I should have time to try out the newest adjustments, but I'm afraid I know how all this is going to turn out. With a long search for the right replacements and a donation to the thrift store. ARRGH!

royalflash

I am not trying to bash Shimano but I have a bike with dual control and don't like it very much. I find the shifting to be more difficult than rapid fire triggers and also less precise. It is easier to end up between gears- something that has never happened with my old rapid fire triggers (at least when the indexing is adjusted right. I can live with it but it is hard to understand why Shimano have switched to a system that is worse than the old one.

But let us know how you like them.

Phatman

this thread is two years old. just so you guys and gals know.

Buzzbomb

I got a set of Pauls adapters to run DA barcons as thumbies on my 9 speed townie and the setup works great!

khuon

I know the Paul Components bar-con thumbie conversion works pretty well but I don't think they're as good as the old thumbies to begin with. They have a higher profile, they weigh more, more hardware to deal with and the worst part is that they add an extra $75 to the cost. However, they are the only option currently if you want to run high-quality thumbshifters but that was my point all along about availability. I also still like the shape/profile of the real MTB thumbies better than the bar-con levers which are slimmer.

Buzzbomb

Do they really weigh more and have more hardware to deal with? They are lighter and are mech speaking simpler than the Suntour (pro xc, I think?) stuff I am/was familiar with years ago.

khuon

Hmmm... perhaps you are right. I however remember an old pair of Shimano DeoreXT thumbies being quite light and simple and they were only a tad heavier than a Shimano Bar-Con. I don't remember how my old Suntour XC-Expert shifters compared though. I'm pretty sure the Paul Component mounts more than make up for the weight difference. And when I said more hardware, I meant that they are positioned out a bit further because the Bar-Cons have a longer lever. Also, they just don't look as nice as the old Suntour and Shimano thumbshifters... but such is life.

Buzzbomb

I'll buy that. They are cool in a sort of utilitarian way to me. When you put the barcons on the Pauls mounts you ditch the bar end plug, losing a substantial amount of weight, so they really end up being quite light.

CranxOC

OK dude, three things:

1) Try starting a new thread next time rather than dredging up a two-year-old thread; it's just easier to figure out what you're talking about.

2) Learn how to create a space in between thoughts. Most of us typically call thos thingies paragraphs; you should learn how they work because that crap you have posted above is unreadable.

3) I have a solution to your "problem:" remove the friggin thumb levers. Shimano put those on there as a crutch for people to get used to the dual-control levers but, the reality is, they're completely useless. Take them off and learn how to ride your "flippy" levers the way they were intenede; no thumbs!

Raiyn

My sentiments exactly. What in the heck are you newbies doing digging up this ANCIENT THREAD?

Phatman

I think it is funny though, raiyn, that you chastise people for not doing searches. it is quite clear that the thread reviver DID, in fact search.

Raiyn

Searches are finding information. NOT for finding ancient threads to tack a semi-related post to. The individual in question should have just started a new thread rather than bring back a thread that pre-dates THE INCEPTION of the XT flippy levers.

daskobtimburt

I dug up this ancient thread hunting for the wise thoughts of people who actually have had experience with these shifters.

daskobtimburt

It drives me crazy that I cannot indent my paragraphs using the tab key. So, if I can't indent them the way I learned to decades ago, (I often type quickly, using both hands, the way I was trained.) maybe it is best to not do it at all. Although my brain has figured it out, my hands believe that there is only one way to properly start a new paragraph. This results in problems for me, you see? So sorry if you are offended! Give me a break, I'm new at this!

daskobtimburt

'those' (as you can see) is spelled with and 'e' on the end, by the way.

Thanks for the advice about the thumb shifters, but I got the same advice from my guy at the lbs, and he was nice about it!

I am not a dude. Maybe a dudette, perhaps.

This thread may have been started long before the shifters came out, but people were posting to it after they hit the market. Just 4 days ago I saw them on the new bikes being sold out of a shop. I know I'm not the only one experiencing them for the first time.

It must be hard to feel compelled to read things that don't interest you. Maybe you should get help with that.

Raiyn

Look newb You could have done a search and seen the FIFTY other threads on the subject most of them much newer than this. Or you could have done what the other 95% of the newbs do which is to start a new post. Something I for one would have much preferred rather than have you dig up what is possibly the oldest conversation on the topic here

Phatman

Right, then you would say, "this has been discussed 100,000 times. do a search". The newb is screwed either way he goes. You’re just being abusive because you're an insecure person that gets pleasure out of berating new forum members.

If you hate old threads being revived, how about asking one of the mods to have a policy to lock threads after a certain amount of time, perhaps after a year of being idle?

CranxOC

The vitrolic portion of me message came from the frustration over the fact that you didn't dillineate your thoughts with some sort of break; coupled with the ancient thread thing, it was annoying. As for your last line, I just have one thing to say: huh? It's called making sense.

Chica (is that better than "dude?"), remember that you're dealing with lot's of different personalities in here and that some of them can be volitile; it's not personal so don't take it that way.

Raiyn

What makes you think I haven't?

Maelstrom 

I will respond to that last bit. It isn't feasible to setup a time restrained archive system. It also isn't a universal feeling to close all old threads. In my, and others, some threads are ever lasting. However some have limited timelines. Things expire, ideas grow old with technology and things become out of date. As topics get re-opened they can and will get closed. This should NOT, imo, be every thread but threads that are obviously done.

As for the search vs open a new thread comparisson. I agree. If we want used to search all the time instead of post then old threads may have to be re-opened. You can't have it both ways. Either a user searches and finds an old thread, opens it and posts, gets in crap or starts a new thread, and told to search. Its one or the other. Thats why both are open to usage.

For example a thread like this may not have had to have been re-opened. It is old and some of the technology has been re-thought or redone.