Convince me to buy a Brompton instead of a Dahon
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I've seen enough mid-hinge (fold in half) aluminum frame hinges fail (or wear to the point of futility) after extended use that I will never consider buying one again. In my experience even the old low budget steel fold in half bikes from the 60's that I've seen with similar mid-point hinges still function as intended. IMHO an aluminum frame with a steel hinge pin that doesn't incorporate something as simple and rudimentary as a self-lubricating bronze bushing (as with most aluminum framed folding bikes I've seen) will fail much quicker than a steel framed hinge with a steel hinge pin.
Also those folding pedals on the D3, as used by Dahon and most other manufacturers with the narrow inner to outer bearing spacing, wear out relatively quickly for me so they're also a no go. The Brompton's fold design necessitates only one folding pedal and that singular folding pedal's unique large thrust bearing is a pretty awesome design alternative to the aforementioned common folding pedals.
#27
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those stock pedals can be easily replaced with MKS ones..for example...
Sometimes its worth to ask the seller to replace them for a sweet deal.... and sometimes the seller will do that. Even on a 699 dlr bike
assuming you are talking about the Dahon pedals and not the Brommy ones ...
I have a couple of things in this thread where it wasnt really obvious for the untrained eye to see if for example the tire size was related to the Brommy or the Dahon ... Of course I know that the Brommy has the weird size and not the Dahon, but again for the untarained its a little confusing ...
same as a couple of those well thought out Pro' and cons ..its hard to follow what bike has the Pros and what bike has the cons
:-)
Also the explanation of the alloy frames and folding mechanism sounds very plausible ..however, with literally MILIONS of ally framed Dahons alone.... since 20 plus years ... I have not seen that at all...
Surely there is always one or two frames breaking, or latched being bend ( usually during transport ) but if the logic behind the explanation would stick they would be thousands and every year thousands and thousands more....
Alloy versus steel was at one time a real issue . ( about 30 years ago ) Its a non issue since than ...
except..no rust, lighter weight .... etc etc
Best Thor
Sometimes its worth to ask the seller to replace them for a sweet deal.... and sometimes the seller will do that. Even on a 699 dlr bike
assuming you are talking about the Dahon pedals and not the Brommy ones ...
I have a couple of things in this thread where it wasnt really obvious for the untrained eye to see if for example the tire size was related to the Brommy or the Dahon ... Of course I know that the Brommy has the weird size and not the Dahon, but again for the untarained its a little confusing ...
same as a couple of those well thought out Pro' and cons ..its hard to follow what bike has the Pros and what bike has the cons
:-)
Also the explanation of the alloy frames and folding mechanism sounds very plausible ..however, with literally MILIONS of ally framed Dahons alone.... since 20 plus years ... I have not seen that at all...
Surely there is always one or two frames breaking, or latched being bend ( usually during transport ) but if the logic behind the explanation would stick they would be thousands and every year thousands and thousands more....
Alloy versus steel was at one time a real issue . ( about 30 years ago ) Its a non issue since than ...
except..no rust, lighter weight .... etc etc
Best Thor
#28
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Another point in the Dahon's favor;the V brakes can just be popped open. The Brommie's calipers require a 10mm wrench. Also,when removing the rear wheel you don't need to remove the tensioner from the Dahon,and depending which year Nexus hub,the shifter cable is easier to remove than the SA's. Removing the Brommie's rear wheel also leaves you with parts to keep track of(pro tip: screw the shifter linkage and tensioner bolt back in so you don't lose them).
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C'dale BBU('05 and '09)/Super Six/Hooligan8and 3,Kona Dew Deluxe,Novara Buzz/Safari,Surly Big Dummy,Marin Pt Reyes,Giant Defy 1,Schwinn DBX SuperSport,Dahon Speed Pro TT,Brompton S6L/S2E-X
C'dale BBU('05 and '09)/Super Six/Hooligan8and 3,Kona Dew Deluxe,Novara Buzz/Safari,Surly Big Dummy,Marin Pt Reyes,Giant Defy 1,Schwinn DBX SuperSport,Dahon Speed Pro TT,Brompton S6L/S2E-X
#29
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replaced the Fibrax pad inserts with Kool stop salmon compound, and they are fine.
Brakes that Brake , just as they should.
the Brompton cable routing really only works with a side pull , though a clever
noodle free V brake fork boss brazing scheme has been done by custom fabricators.
Add, Clever Cycles in PDX rents Bromptons, they are selling the rentals now,
get a new batch next year ..
LBS here does that with coaster brake Cruisers , a less pricy fleet.
Brakes that Brake , just as they should.
the Brompton cable routing really only works with a side pull , though a clever
noodle free V brake fork boss brazing scheme has been done by custom fabricators.
Add, Clever Cycles in PDX rents Bromptons, they are selling the rentals now,
get a new batch next year ..
LBS here does that with coaster brake Cruisers , a less pricy fleet.
Last edited by fietsbob; 12-03-13 at 11:22 AM.
#30
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Brompton caliper brakes need updating really, with q/r and barrel adjuster. Like any cheap caliper. It's a pain taking off a brake pad to remove a wheel.
I'm pretty happy with my Brompton these days. Switching from a 13t to 14t sprocket has transformed the drivetrain from grindy to smooth and it rides well overall. Anyone who is interested in Bromptons should just buy a second hand one and try it for a while (of course taking precautions to avoid stolen goods). My Dahon is nice too, around 6 years old and still going strong.
I'm pretty happy with my Brompton these days. Switching from a 13t to 14t sprocket has transformed the drivetrain from grindy to smooth and it rides well overall. Anyone who is interested in Bromptons should just buy a second hand one and try it for a while (of course taking precautions to avoid stolen goods). My Dahon is nice too, around 6 years old and still going strong.
#31
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They use a dual pivot caliper Now, that is an Upgrade over a single pivot as far as most are concerned .
I Only remove the wheel to mend a puncture , air's already out.. re install wheel. then. pump it up.
I Only remove the wheel to mend a puncture , air's already out.. re install wheel. then. pump it up.
Last edited by fietsbob; 06-17-14 at 11:29 AM.
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For the last seven years I've owned a Dahon Speed 7. This is the only folding bike I've ever owned and it has treated me well. I've used it as a backup bike and for traveling by car and by bus. I've put something like 2,000 miles on it. Now I'm getting the urge to buy a Brompton. Is the extra cost of a Brompton justified? Convince me.
You will find the Dahons to be stabler and more "normal"-riding than a Brompton. And they use many more standard parts. And many are much lighter (not the Speed 7, which is at Dahon's low end). But of course they don't fold remotely as well. That's Brompton's only real arrow in its quiver, but it's a big one.
Traditionally the Brompton has had terrible, terrible options for gearing. But I like the Brompton's ultrawide 6-speed hub, which you should look at carefully. Other Brompton gearing options you will find to be quite inferior to the Dahon.
You should also look at a Bike Friday Tikit too. But Bikes@Vienna doesn't sell them any more. However I believe Mt. Airy Bikes / College Park Bikes does. A Tikit has its own specific advantages which as a DCer I think are much more helpful in DC than the Brompton's.
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[Rant]
My advice for anyone considering a new Brompton, don't bother with the Brompton Kevlar tires, opt for the Schwalbe Marathons. The Brompton tires are one of the worst I've had the displeasure of depending on in a long time. I've had 3 flats in two weeks... more than I think I've had in years. The first flat was on the rear tire caused by a piece of glass. Not a jagged sharp shard of glass but a big pea sized hunk of dull glass (anyone familiar with beach glass?... yeah, like that) that pierced right through the centerline of the tread, through the kevlar and into the tube. Within the last couple of days I was sidelined twice, once with a front flat and just about an hour ago at the rear again and in both cases a small pea sized piece of granite gravel pierced through the thickest part of the tire's tread. When I ordered my Brommie I thought I'd give these puppies a try and I'm regretting it. I'm ordering Schwalbe Marathons tonight.
[/Rant]
Last edited by BassNotBass; 11-12-13 at 07:03 PM.
#35
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All from personal experiences of riding and working at bike shops as well as those of owners I've met through the years. As far as I know nobody documented anything on the internet about this... at least nothing that I've ever come across.
#36
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In DC, Bikes@Vienna can rent you a brompton for the day to try. Note that Tim (the current owner) is a huge Brompton fan, so you need to stay fair in your assessment and comparison. Also you should try a lighter and better quality Dahon to compare against the Brompton, perhaps a Mu. Comparing to a Speed 7 is like comparing a BMW against a Honda Fit. Bikes@Vienna can help you there too.
You will find the Dahons to be stabler and more "normal"-riding than a Brompton. And they use many more standard parts. And many are much lighter (not the Speed 7, which is at Dahon's low end). But of course they don't fold remotely as well. That's Brompton's only real arrow in its quiver, but it's a big one.
Traditionally the Brompton has had terrible, terrible options for gearing. But I like the Brompton's ultrawide 6-speed hub, which you should look at carefully. Other Brompton gearing options you will find to be quite inferior to the Dahon.
You should also look at a Bike Friday Tikit too. But Bikes@Vienna doesn't sell them any more. However I believe Mt. Airy Bikes / College Park Bikes does. A Tikit has its own specific advantages which as a DCer I think are much more helpful in DC than the Brompton's.
You will find the Dahons to be stabler and more "normal"-riding than a Brompton. And they use many more standard parts. And many are much lighter (not the Speed 7, which is at Dahon's low end). But of course they don't fold remotely as well. That's Brompton's only real arrow in its quiver, but it's a big one.
Traditionally the Brompton has had terrible, terrible options for gearing. But I like the Brompton's ultrawide 6-speed hub, which you should look at carefully. Other Brompton gearing options you will find to be quite inferior to the Dahon.
You should also look at a Bike Friday Tikit too. But Bikes@Vienna doesn't sell them any more. However I believe Mt. Airy Bikes / College Park Bikes does. A Tikit has its own specific advantages which as a DCer I think are much more helpful in DC than the Brompton's.
#37
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I've had dahons - hammerhead (remember that) and speed tr. Would consider another. But my brompton is never leaving me. It is the combination of the fold - not just small, but quick, tight and light - and the ride, which I find quite joyous, especially as I have put on removable pedals (even smaller fold !!!) and powergrips. With the grips and standing up is almost like being able to run really really fast, it is such a great feeling I don't get on any other bike.
But it is I think utterly subjective - Dahon and Brompton are great brands for good reason both.
But it is I think utterly subjective - Dahon and Brompton are great brands for good reason both.
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like Dahons, the Hammerhead doesn't ride like a regular bike, but it is great on its own terms. Has great acceleration. But really, you gotta ride various models - each to their own. In an odd way, it was closer to the ride on my brommie - so, taut, nippy, but many more gears.
#42
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like Dahons, the Hammerhead doesn't ride like a regular bike, but it is great on its own terms. Has great acceleration. But really, you gotta ride various models - each to their own. In an odd way, it was closer to the ride on my brommie - so, taut, nippy, but many more gears.
... I think, however, I'm approaching (S - 1) in terms of the number of bikes I can actually own...
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the hammerhead I had was an earlier model where the frame didn't separate. I'd go for one which did, or indeed any other dahon minivelo that did.
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Have both until you decide between them... or keep them both
For the last seven years I've owned a Dahon Speed 7. This is the only folding bike I've ever owned and it has treated me well. I've used it as a backup bike and for traveling by car and by bus. I've put something like 2,000 miles on it. Now I'm getting the urge to buy a Brompton. Is the extra cost of a Brompton justified? Convince me.
I considered selling the Flamingo, as I don't ride it frequently, but at last I'm keeping it for the occasional ride (when I have to go alone to the city).
I am a small person and the Dahon 20" feels like a big bike for me. The Flamingo is lighter and smaller, handy for any ocassion.
They are reliable bikes and I'm so happy with them I decided to keep them both. (My guilty sense of keeping more than I need is not strong enough refered to bikes).
You can always buy the Brompton second hand, try it and resell at almost the original price if you're not happy, they keep their price if are a careful rider.
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Thanks for the info smallwheeler - lovely delightful work from Kiyohiko with a masterly mix of realistic detail and simplistic, graphic cartoon style.
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Incidentally, I've been riding my Brompton with the Schwalbe Marathons for a couple of weeks and IMHO they are dramatically superior to the stock Brompton kevlar tires. The ride feels much smoother and quicker and I doubt I'll have any more punctures.
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The disadvantages of the Scorchers are three. (1) They wear out faster than Marahons -- a natural side effect of being grippy, fast, and light (2) They are not cheap (3) They are becoming scarce. You can buy them most easily from Bike Friday right now, or contact Greenspeed directly. Unfortunately Calhoun no longer carries them. It's frustrating because of how much better they are every single other 349 tire out there (I think).
#50
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on my Mk4 M3L, I just see a in side dent in the chainstay.. for a little bit more clearance, over a round version ..
right chainstay tube..
still close.. they make the dent bigger for 2013~14 version?.?
right chainstay tube..
still close.. they make the dent bigger for 2013~14 version?.?
Last edited by fietsbob; 06-17-14 at 11:32 AM.