Colorado Kid

Recently, I bought a nice breathable jacket for commuting. I got it from a large mail order retailer and they promised it was not only breathable but waterproof and quite warm (down to 0 degrees F.) On my first ride I decided to go a little longer and I noticed the top of my pants was soaked with perspiration. Rather than wicking through the many layers as it should have, it just soaked everything. Talking to customer service was an eye-opening experience. "No one makes truly breathable jackets that warm," said the customer rep. "either they breathe and they don't keep you warm, or you sweat like a pig and don't breathe at all." Has anyone else run into this type of problem when considering winter jackets?

fietsbob

Water proof when the water is Snow, is a Low Bar to get over ... you just sweat, More than the breathable pores will let Pass .

and once the DWR Treatment wears off , the water from the outside will seep Thru rather than Bead Up .

I put on my Waterproof Rain Cape, when its Pouring out . Over My Jacket that is a decent wind break when its Just Cold , But Dry to misty out..

and I now neither go Far, Or Fast. since Home location is near to my Usual haunts.

HardyWeinberg

It's not a problem, it's reality. If you were assured of a jacket that would be breathable down to 0F, you were lied to.

MichaelW

At 0F, water is solid. You don't need a waterproof. Also, the air is usually dryer.
Breathable waterproofs are challenged most by cool/cold rain and high humidity. If you get wet, you can get cold.

Usually it is better to use separate insulation and shell layers. I can use a windproof or a waterproof shell and add mid-layers according to the temp. Cycling can generate lots of heat and moisture which can overpower many all-in-one jackets.

gregf83 

That's an oxymoron for anything other than very low exertion levels. Breathable, waterproof fabric exists and probably works fine if you're walking but for anything more strenuous, Goretex or any other 'breathable' fabric quickly gets overwhelmed with sweat and all your clothes will get wet.

I've had much better success with jackets that have lots of openings to let air circulate, somewhat like a glorified poncho. I recently bought a J&G jacket for $100 and it seems to work quite well. It has large pit zips which I leave open and attach the bottom and top velcro without zipping up the front. If it's very cold and/or I'm not working hard on the bike I could do up the zips for some extra warmth.

achoo

Yep. Nothing is going to be "breathable" enough to allow you to dump the heat you generate if you're riding hard.

I've just plain given up trying to keep dry and just dressed for getting wet when I know I'm going to be riding hard in wet weather.

fietsbob

the Former Burly CoOp's Rain jackets had a overlapping Caped back to let them ventilate, IDK any others, now . most just use a single back Panel.


Zzipper Fairing on the handlebars can take care of the wind break in front of you, then you can wear Lighter tops that will let sweat evaporate..
Plus the aerodynamics gain a small % of efficiency..

spivonious

I've given up on "breathable" jackets. If I'm riding in cold rain, I'll just take it easier to minimize any sweat.

no motor?

I got a jacket from Foxwear that has softshell material in the front and fleece in the back that isn't completely waterproof nor completely breathable, but it's enough of a compromise for me.

PaulRivers

For winter cycling you don't buy a heavy winter jacket, for best at staying warm you wear at least 2 layers:

1. A windproof "breathable" out layer. Gore Windstopper is expensive but has a good reputation for being both breathable and windproof (not waterproof though, just water resistant).

If you need waterproof, this guy here says the Gore Active line is the only one that he'd actually recommend for cycling:
https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycli...l#post17233777

Gore says that Windstopper is 10 times more breathable than Goretex though (though again Windstopper is not waterproof, not really a problem at 20 degrees though).

2. A wicking, very breathable base layer. Usually either merino wool (smartwool) or synthetic material.

You regulate how warm you are by changing how many layers you have. Merino wool is a great material for covering a wide range of temperatures, but if I'm biking at 0 degrees I'll wear 2 layer of the long underwear pants, and 1 long underwear top with a smartwool sweater, all underneath the outer shell.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

There's a couple of reasons why they do it this way that come to mind:
- Wearing the inner layer tight to the skin provides the thinnest material, for best breathability
- Wearing the inner layer tight to the skin wicks the moisture away from the skin the best
- The inner layer has to be separate because it's going to have sweat pass through, and thus will need to be washed fairly regularly or it will start to smell terrible

FrankHudson

For higher exertion riding you might want to go with "pit zip" vents and/or a wind blocking front and a wicking (not waterproof) back at some temps. And don't overdress your torso like you waiting at a bus stop or sitting in a cold car if you are actively biking.. Down to about 0 F when I commuted in MN winter I'd wear a duo layer wicking/wool undershirt under a Gortex wind shell. For really cold days (below zero) I add a vest layer. If I was standing around doing nothing that wouldn't be comfortable for me at 40 degrees F, but I'm not standing around.

GreenmanBelg

Any thoughts of a cape/poncho?. I'm leaning in that direction.

scoatw

I've never experienced that wearing a Showers Pass or my current jacket, the J&G jacket.. I use this jacket as my cold weather outer shell with a cross country ski jacket under that. That with different layering underneath keeps me comfortable down to the negative digits. But I've never been "soaked with perspiration" while riding in cold weather. Only in 80 or 90 degree weather.

gregjones

There's cape fans in the Car Free forum.

Here's some of the latest comments, in a cheap rain gear thread.......mostly similar to earlier comments.

noglider 

A fabric can't let your moisture out and keep rain off if the air outside the jacket is much more humid than the air inside the jacket. That is the fallacy of so-called breathable materials.

PaulRivers

But to be fair here, that's why they're good for winter riding. Cold winter air is very low humidity.

I think there might be something about heat involved in this as well, but you're right - it "allows" moisture to pass through the jacket to the outside, but if it's higher humidity outside it won't work.

noglider 

Out on the prairie, the winter air may be dry. Ain't so here. Come visit us. You'll never feel so cold at 30º as you did before.

Archwhorides 

Layers are the trick, same as in back-country skiing. Below freezing temps a windproof breathable softshell is best over an insulating layer. If it is snowing and/or very windy, throw on a breathable hardshell with pit-zips to improve ventilation. Same goes for rainy conditions (with less insulation), but as others have pointed out, in high humidity only increased ventilation can help.

Shimagnolo

Several years ago I contacted Foxwear and told them I wanted the warmest pants they could provide.
They said they could do that in any color I wanted, as long as it was gray.
I gave them my measurements (I have a *very* long inseam) and ordered.


They sent me pants in a softshell material with a *perfect* fit; Not too tight; Not too loose.
They are so warm that I don't wear them over 50F, else my legs sweat, even though I'm only using cycling undershorts with them.

I was so happy with them, I was planning to order a softshell jacket.
Then this past fall I was walking through Costco and saw a bin full of softshell jackets, perfect for cycling.
$20/each.

I'm sold on softshell fabric for winter cycling.
It is lighter and warmer than anything else I've used.

bikemig 

If you need to work hard, a jacket with some sort of waterproof laminate isn't going to cut it. A softshell is probably your best bet.

If you need to worry about rain, the best two options are a rain cape or a waterproof jacket with lots of pits and openings. I've used capes in the past. They work pretty well as you can sweat freely underneath it. I've also owned a waterproof jacket with lots of pits (a burley) and it was a trooper for many years.

GuyDebord

No need to compromise. I have two very breathable, waterproof and warm jackets; they are expensive but worth it. The fabric is made in Switzerland by Schoeller and its called C-Change, they breathe way better than my pac-lite and goretex pro Arcteryx shells.

arsprod 

Check out neoshell on foxwear.net. It's waterproof and breathable, I now have 2 jackets one out of the lightweight neoshell for temps down to about 30f and the other is heavy and I've used it to -10. Also have pants (can you tell I like this stuff?!).

It's not cheap but I've used jackets from Showers Pass, Cannondale, REI, PI that cost much more and there's no comparison. Google neoshell and you'll see the big name brands are starting to use it (for big $$). Stick with Lou at Foxwear - you'll become a foxwear evangelist too!

fietsbob

I have my Cycle rain Cape at The Ready in My front Bag all winter ..

If you got a Carradice saddle bag, that is what those 4 D Rings on the Flap were to be Tying on ..



Poncho .. Big rectangle. not so well suited.. Cycle capes are Conic , so dont flap like a Flag in the wind..

arsprod 

I like the rain cape idea but I'm lazy so the idea of carrying another piece of gear for rain just doesn't work for me. Philosophical issue

modernjess

In colder weather it's all about managing sweat. As everyone has mentioned so far nothing is truly breathable, it is a dream that some day may be realized but not yet. Any jacket you buy is a compromise in some way. Schoeller soft shell fabrics are really pretty darn good as far as regulating sweat and breathing, but if it's pouring rain, no. It's all about you, your tolerance, your prevailing conditions, your budget and it varies for everyone. You can find pieces that work well for you most of the time, but rest assured they are all a compromise in one way or another.