jackbombay

Ahh, the window cut out structure looked like my old sprinter.

barnfind

It sounds like maybe you have a mix of internal parts, I noticed at some point that they changed the ball ring and the hub shell. If you just grabbed used parts from a bin or a bunch of old hubs, you may have a few parts that aren't playing well together. I had one that would lock up when I tightened the ball ring on the right side no matter what, I swapped it for an older ball ring and all was fine. That was a hub with a non removable left side cup. Try swapping in all the same era parts and see if that fixes it. Chances are that's what your doing when your trying the whole new internal assembly. I've also had a few gear rings that just didn't sit down over the planet gears all the way, I swapped out both the planet cage and gear ring on that one and all was good.

oldspokes

I'm not sure if what you meant is what I found, but there is a definite difference between the older hubs and the hub here with the stamped steel integral left side bearing cup.
Now, that has no effect on the function of the internals since the entire internal gear set has its end play or backlash set via the right side axle cone. The left side bearing simply gives support and sets end play in the whole assembly. The spacing of all the gears is fixed between the pinion and the right ball cup once the clutch is installed.
With that said, what I did was to install just the original right side ball cup and take a measurement between the two axle bearing cups. What I found sort of surprised me,
the hub with the integral left ball cup is roughly 10mm narrower at the axle bearings than a hub with a removable left bearing cup. This didn't sink in till I started to wonder why this wheel had an 8mm left side spacer between the bearing cone and lock nut. Without the spacer, and the two washers over the lock nut, the overall width of this hub would be only 100mm when fully assembled. I've never run across another one with this spacer before. The wheel is also dished accordingly with that spacer installed. With the spacer, the hub spacing is 110mm.
Now, that had nothing to do with the issues with the noise or rubbing sound. I tore the hub apart again, this time comparing every last part to the parts that came out and to various other new parts I had on hand. What I found was that there are two different right side ball cups, but the change is cosmetic more than functional, mostly likely done to save some weight, one being a thin flange, the other being a wide flange cup, but the bearing locations are the same.
Second, there are four different axles, at least that's how many I found in my assortment. There are two lengths, long and short, with the short being what I have at 5 3/4". Then there's differences in the indicator hole in the axle, the later versions have a larger portion to the outer hole, where as the older versions are the same size the whole length of the hole.
Where I screwed up was assuming that all planet gear pins were the same. When I looked close at the old pins, I could see that the ends were badly chewed up, but there was no wear showing on the gear cup. I measured them anyway, and found them to be roughly .004" shorter than the new pins I installed, which came from a vintage Sturmey Archer envelope I likely bought 30 years ago. I then measured a bunch of used pins I had, what I found was that there's a .012" difference from the shorter to the longer pins. All the old pins are longer. I went and dug up another later model hub, this one dated 1974, and stripped it for parts. The pins in that hub measured .012" shorter than the new pins I had installed. (I checked the pins in the new internals I had tried and those matched the new pins from the old envelope).
The part number doesn't appear to have changed over the years though. Using the shorter pins, the gear cup sets farther down over the planet gears, the .012" difference gives the gear cup room to rotate without rubbing the ball cup on the inside. No more noise.
I'm sure a quick trip to the bench grinder would have solved it too but there does appear to be some changes over the years in these. This 1972 model is by far the newest I've had apart to fix. I don't think any of my other bikes have hubs that don't have removable left side bearing cups.
The hub body otherwise is the same, the functional internal widths are the same. as are the distances between the spoke flanges. The left side bearing flare is just shorter.

gster

1961 Superbe Scorcher

Despite saying no, this bike was delivered to my house a few years ago.
$50.00 was too good a price.
Today I was working on the front wheel (EA1 rim) and realised I
had the adjustable cone on the wrong side (right side).
I'm going to look at the other scorchers in the shed and
check them as well.
Adjustable cone on the left side is correct.
From the Book of Sheldon Brown.....

gster

I'm glad I checked..
These two cones were both reversed.

The Robin Hood sees regular use.
The Glider no.

The Bitsa Scorcher sees the most use and was correct.
A good opportunity to repack bearings and clean the rims.

Salubrious

They bounce once and then are gone forever.

Salubrious

+1 good work! I had to replace my '72 hub but wanted to retain the nice chrome dust plate... Didn't work- apparently (and this also based on what you found) about 1972 the hub parts became incompatible with earlier hubs, despite mine being one with the smooth finish on the outside.

vintagebicycle

Somewhere around 1962 the hub shells changed, along with the dust caps and other various bits. For the most part the internals interchange but there are minor differences like you found. I've seen planet gears that are both smooth edged and sort of rounded edged, (teeth narrower than the sides of the gear), different right bearing caps, at least four different axles, (if you count the various ways they affixed the sun gear, there could be at least 7), there are two drivers, early threaded and c clip style, and both pin length changes and right side pawl changes.

On the newer shells, after '62, I've seen both smooth and fancy shells, as well as both from the same year. I've also had a few blank with decals in the later years, with nothing but a date code stamped into the shell. That one was a 1977 S3C. The 'decal' was sort of a clear plastic shrink wrap that shrunk and split, falling off the hub when it was cleaned. Another, with the same decal, had a full fancy logo under the same full color decal.

I've also had a few cases where an axle won't fit a particular hub, as in being too tight in the planet gears. Yet taking another new axle out of the same envelope worked fine. Yet that same axle worked fine in another hub.
I just chocked it up to these being mass produced parts and the 'fit' or finish often varies. The top edges of the gear teeth on any of these hubs leaves a lot to be desired but the gears are hard as stone in most cases so they wear very well regardless. I've built a few hubs from 'all new' parts off the shelf here and getting a new set to work often means swapping out various parts here and there to get the best feel or the best fit. I've put a few together that were so tight they would barely turn, but swapping out maybe the axle or planet gears, or the ball cup, or the pins made it all work just fine. I'm not sure if there really was an intended difference in some parts or if it all wasn't just a matter of 'manufacturing tolerances'.

As far as the extra narrow shell, I've run into a few of them over the years and I'm fairly certain that each one came from Raleigh bikes made in Malaysia. The hub shells say Made in England, but for some reason they required a huge spacer to get them up to proper width. I never really bothered to see why. I seem to remember each of them being too far gone to fix, each having stripped gears, one having a huge hole in the shell where a planet gear had broke its pin, popped up, gone through the gear ring and ruptured the shell. It took a half hour to get the thing apart to see what was going on, when I did I realized I had wasted my time as there were no salvageable parts left.
Another later change in those hubs on Raleigh bikes is the change to 36h front and rear hubs in the later 70's.

gster

I suspect that they're conspiring with my missing socks and tools.

barnfind

I used a really strong magnet when I open up one of those headsets or even most bottom brackets, it'll grab a loose ball from 3 inches away.
I suppose any strong neodymium magnet would work. On my bench, I have a magnetic counter pad from some bearing supplier I dealt with once.
I think its got a 2004 calendar on it or something. But not much escapes it.

Years ago I had a cat that would let me know where anything I dropped went, she would go after it as if it were a cricket or mouse.

I spent a hour looking for an aluminum nut I dropped a few months ago, I even moved the tool box and bench but I couldn't find it, I gave up and went in the house and as I was walking through the kitchen I felt a stone in my shoe. There was the aluminum nut.

Usually the one you dropped doesn't turn up until you already bought one to replace it.

cudak888 

If you choose to part with them, send Warren ( clubman ) a PM. He has a whole lot of Raleighs and I believe his knees don't do well with conventional length cranks. Not sure if 135mm would work for him, but he may really benefit from these.

IIRC, he was interested in some 155 square taper cranks from my not-so-local co-op - unfortunately, I wasn't able to get any of those sets to him.

-Kurt

clubman 

[QUOTE=barnfind;21602076
I'm finding these mixed in among other cranks that were stored in 55 gallon barrels from the same lot as all the hubs.
They're rounded arm style, the chain rings best match the earlier style 48t. models from the 50's.
They're too old to be Raleight 20 or or Chopper, besides, both of those used longer cranks.
I have two Raleigh Colts with 24" wheels in the lot, both have 155 or 165mm cranks.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for looking out for me Kurt.
Yes, I certainly be interested in any cranksets under 160mm. When you come up for air barnfind, please give me a pm.
Thank you.

clubman 

My Uncle Allan was sorting through stuff after the death of my Aunt and came across some old pics which I just received. There, in glorious Kodak film (now 16 bit grayscale PNG) is my first 2 wheeler, a Raleigh Mountie. The pic is dated '64 but the bike was a hand me down from my cousin who was 4 years older than me. I suspect it's circa 1960. So cool, I remember my first ride like it was yesterday.
Short anecdote, not long after this pic, on Victoria day (Firecracker day to most Canadian kids), my rotten neighbour Billy, sent me flying down the road unawares, with a cherry bomb in my rear pants pocket, blowing the arse out of it. My unflappable and sedate nanny (grandma), laid an arse whipping on Billy he never forgot. My pants were blown right out to the skin.
I was 6 years old.

gster

A couple of recent Kijiji listings.
Triumph 3 speed at an optimistic $300.00

And a late 60's Raleigh built Supercycle 3 speed at $1,100.00!

Obviously a very clean original bike but not at that price.

gster

The old firecrackers were pretty powerful.
Several years ago I found an NOS case of these...

It clearly says don't put firecrackers in your pocket!

barnfind

Although these certainly aren't mine, they do represent the type and condition of quite a few of the bikes I've got here.
What would most here value these two bikes at if these were yours and you were looking to sell?

The reason I ask is because sooner or later I have to cull down the number of bikes and build-able frames from the last four or five clean outs.
Most that I've got here are somewhere in between the conditions of the two bikes pictured here. Most are Raleigh built but not 'Raleigh' bikes, (Robin Hood, Hercules, etc.).
The bottom line too is that if these aren't worth enough as sellable bikes, its not likely worth my time to either re-assemble or even just service any of them that aren't going to be 'keepers'.

gster

Good question with no hard answer.
A lot depends on your location.
Prices have always been higher in urban centres and even more now.
In Toronto new bike sales have surged and new stock (from Asia) has dried up.
Even parts to repair bikes are in short supply.
I've paid anywhere from nothing up to $425.00 for a very original DL-1
For example:
If I really wanted that Triumph I would pay $80.00-100.00
The Supercycle maybe $300-$350
Things that add value for me:
Originality and completeness
Clean rims/chrome
Leather saddle
pump
period accessories (saddlebag/lighting etc)
Prices at the Toronto show were generally in
the $150-$350 zone for 3 speeds.

Others will weigh in.

barnfind

• Clean rims here are non existent unless the bike was never used. I've owned several of these bikes for over 40 years and never had one wear through the chrome on the rims or get rusty spots, even with high miles on them.
• In 40 plus years I've also never run across a single bike with a leather saddle, either new or used. I've found a few new one's on shelves, but never found one on a bike. Back in the day, I don't even remember ever taking a bike out of the box with one with the exception of a few Peugeot PX10's. I bought a new Raleigh Super Course in 1977, it came with a padded Selle saddle with two rear springs, not the B17 that they advertised. I personally unpacked and assembled that bike myself, along with many others and none we saw had B17 saddles.
• Original pumps are like hen's teeth here, basically only the Raleigh branded bikes got them, and only the deluxe model. Frame pumps were popular on road bikes, everyone HAD to have one, but not on three speeds, most didn't care.

Here's an example of what's in the trailer, this one came out of the trailer apart, it still needs cables, a shifter, some grips, and the chain installed. The rims are very pitted, they look okay from a distance but they're rough. They are straight and true though. The tires are old, maybe original but they hold air. The BB, HS, and rear hub are mint, I relubed the BB, HS, and front hub, I opened and checked the rear hub as well. I have good used cables, a good used shifter, used pedals, everything to make the bike perfectly servicable, it just won't be cosmetically perfect. A new set of rims, and new bars and the chrome situation is solved.

I'll likely go so far as making it ridable and either keep it as a family loaner or if something better comes along I'll list it but being so small it'll likely be here for a while. The last small frame like this sat on CL for sale for four years at $250 and it was also a good bit cleaner than this one overall. I finally let it go for $225 so I didn't have watch the new tires dry rot just sitting there. I had run it on Facebook too but it got no interest there at all after 6 months. It sold to the first guy who came to see it, he drove 6 hours to get it.

What I'm finding with the 'Apart bikes' is that he took each bike apart and gave every part a code, for example this one was 677, every part on the bike had a tag with that number. I've not found a matching chainguard and the calipers were also not marked for this bike.
There are three of these frames two are identical. This and one other have no model decal on them, just a Robin Hood headbadge and a coat of arms decal on the seat post. It may well still be here but it wasn't in the box with this bike's number and it wasn't in the barrel with the other Chainguards I found. I do have a black one though off an older bike but I likely just leave it off for now.

oldspokes

Rusty rims or not, that Robin Hood don't look bad to me. Its likely better than 90% of all the other three speed English bikes I see for sale.

I think that after 50+ years, any bike that can be made to look that good without a new paint or decals, or any modern parts added is more desirable to most people. I shy away from bikes with modern wheels, modern cranks, etc. If I'm looking for an old English bike, I want it to be all English.
While there's something to be said for building one of these into a resto-mod with some alloy bits to save weight, those are different bikes that appeal to a different set of guys.
I bought a Hercules three speed a while back on which someone replaced the rims with modern alloy rims, the brakes with alloy calipers, the seat post, crankset, stem and handle bars were all aluminum and they tossed the fenders for a set of Honjo alloy fenders.
The bike was great, but it was still just a heavy steel frame with some nice bits. It was surely lighter, but also much more fragile in someways. It didn't have the appeal that a bone stock Sports model has.

What stands out to me about that Robin Hood in your pic is that its got chrome fenders, something that's at least somewhat rare around here.
I think that bike is very presentable and completed, as original as possible and made 'ready to ride' should bring around $300.
While the small frame is a detractor to some, its a big plus to a guy who can't fit on a big frame. Even though I only ride 23 and 24" frames, I've got a fair number of buddies who ride smaller bikes. A guy 5ft 3in tall would likely be ideal for that bike.
There's also a big advantage most overlook about those smaller models, they're a good bit lighter overall and have a much shorter wheelbase. I've taken a few of them and added long stems and seat posts and made them into weekly beater bikes, they handle quite different than a larger frame model. The downside can be top tube length and knee clearance for a bigger guy.
Just because there's a few out there putting fire sale prices on their bikes, it don't make yours worth any less.
I still think there's more buyers than sellers for these types of bikes and sometimes it takes time for the right person to find your ad.

I rarely put new tires or cables on a bike, especially not on an older bike, cables are either good or bad, if they're frayed or rusty, change them, if not why bother. Don't fix what isn't broke. The original cables are also likely far better than any Asian made replacement you buy to replace them with. Lube them and move on. As far as tires, putting new tires on a bike can also make the bike look cheap. Most I see for sale have the cheapest gumwall tires they could find on them. Those tires ride hard, look wrong on an English bike, and the lower profile tire doesn't protect the rim very well. The older 26x 1 3/8 tires were a lot beefier tires.
There are some modern tread tires now available but they don't look the part on an old bike. A good set of serviceable older tires to me, looks better than some cheap Asian tire. If can find them, I like the Michelin World Tour tires in black, but I've not seen them for sale in the states in a long time. The old Dunlop and Raleigh Record tires were what they came with originally. I've got a pair of new old stock Raleigh Record tires from the early 70's here, their a good 1/4" wider and 1/2" taller overall than any modern tire with the exception of the Michelin World Tour, and the last I checked, even the gumwall version was gone from most listings.

oldspokes

We didn't play with those little firecrackers, we would have bottle rocket and Roman candle fights. Sort of like jousting with fireworks.
All those fireworks had all sorts of warnings, Don't carry in Pocket, Don't hold in your hand, Don't ignite indoors, etc.
I guess iIts all fun and games till someone burns down a house or loses a hand.

I remember one 4th of July, about 40 years ago, all of us at work went to this one guys house down at the shore. About 3 am all the neighbors had fireworks and beer, and everyone was trying to out do each other. Then this one guy next door stumbles out of his house drunk and yells something incoherent to the crowd. He then proceeds to light and drop something the size of a bowling ball into a metal trash can angled toward us and ran the other way. He had propped the can on a rock pointing it toward us down by the water. The can sort of slid a bit and rolled to one side, aiming it straight at his house. The thing went off and shot out of the can, going straight through the gable vent on the side of his house into his attic. When it went off, we could see the glow and flashing though out the whole house.

Three hours later we were watching the sun come up and the fire department put out the fire as we drank the last of our beer. The whole time the firemen were putting out the fire they were tripping over empty beer cans all over the lawn there. It was just one of nights you don't ever forget.

thumpism 

Wasn't someone looking for one of these? I searched but did not find anything to indicate who that might be, possibly in another thread.

https://richmond.craigslist.org/bik/...165397376.html

48cm Womens Raleigh Colt 3spd Bike For Sale - $200 (Mechanicsville)

bicycle frame material: steel
bicycle type: road
frame size: 48cm
wheel size: 26 in
I have a 48cm women's Raleigh Colt 3spd bike for sale. This bike has new tires, tubes. This bike has Sturmy Archer shifter, 26" wheels, coaster brake, front hand brake. This bike has been serviced and detailed and is ready to ride. This bike should fit someone 5'0 to 5'4 comfortably. If interested please contact me.

gster

I bought a nice EA1 rim from a Kijiji listing the other day for $10.00.

I picked it up downtown from a young man who had started a Raleigh project, become discouraged and given up....
He offered me the frame for free but I was on my bike. I told him to reconsider his project but would gladly
come back and take the frame next week.

oldspokes

Are there any differences between the AMF Hercules and the plain Hercules bikes of the early 70's?
I looked at one today that's could pass for brand new, a 24" frame AMF Hercules, the hub says 8-71.
It didn't look any different other than the seat tube decal and white reflective bands on the fork than my
same size, same year plain Hercules.
It also looked to be the exact same bike as my 1965 Robin Hood, only the decals were different.
Yet I keep seeing the AMF decaled models get overlooked or sold for cheap?
I was told if I stop by this afternoon, I can have the AMF model for $40.
While I'm most definitely going to go get it, I was wondering if there were any hidden differences?

gster

I also have a '71 AMF Hercules for sale.

Other than the decals, I see no difference.


It does have the world's most uncomfortable saddle.
I've left in on for the sake of originality.

billnuke1 

Talked to the owner about this years ago...at least 10...says to me ,...”nobody wants to ride it, you can have it...”...I got it...loosened head nut, too tight...adjusted... actually steers easily now.
Lubed and adjusted front hub...way too loose...no damage detected, none expected...put air in the original tires...no explosions...adjusted brakes...they’ll put’cha ovah the bars!
Lastly, but not leastly, I used my awesome Park Tool, SS-1, to straighten out the bunch on fender stays!
At first I was thinking that it was a bit of overkill...I’ve done them every other way...these are great if you can find another one...works even more awesomer on it’s assigned duty of straightening seat and chain stays!

1972, 21”

😄❗️
Anyhow...I rode it...I hated it! Prob just not my size... I ride the next size up...gonna be passin’ this one through...