Proprietary parts that would stop you buying...
#1
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Proprietary parts that would stop you buying...
Just read a thread about the Giant Escape using a "D-fuse" seatpost. A non-round seat tube/post would kill the deal for me personally. I could see one on a TT bike or other racing type aero bike, but on a hybrid? Trek uses a proprietary handlebar on their FX series (maybe others-I don't know). That would not stop me, as a handlebar is easily changed, if you like the bike enough. Sure there are other proprietary products out there that I am unaware of. Any of them that would stop you from purchasing a bike?
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Personally I would stay away of any bike that had proprietary parts. What if the Company went out of business.
Even my bents have mostly standard parts except the frame and seat.
Even my bents have mostly standard parts except the frame and seat.
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Yes, I stay away from them. Several aero road bikes have their own proprietary integrated road bar stem special slotted hidden cable spacers. What happens 10 years from now when you need a part and they discontinued it when the v2.0 came out? I’m good without proprietary stuff.
#4
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Brompton which is thriving, uses a few proprietary parts but also has spawned a number of aftermarket companies,
making various variation to the unique designs in Ti and CNC aluminum rather than some of the nylon and other plastics
they have suppliers make for their bike production..
Bike Friday has a few parts they make for their bikes, frames, forks, etc ... but components are usually from the regular bike picks..
And have a menu to let you pick the price level component selection you prefer . .. & can afford,,
making various variation to the unique designs in Ti and CNC aluminum rather than some of the nylon and other plastics
they have suppliers make for their bike production..
Bike Friday has a few parts they make for their bikes, frames, forks, etc ... but components are usually from the regular bike picks..
And have a menu to let you pick the price level component selection you prefer . .. & can afford,,
#6
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a lot of the propriety stuff (not all of course) on bikes is supposed to give you an edge in a competitive setting. if you're racing and split seconds count between first and third place and it really matters that you win, go nuts. most bikes ridden that hard don't last long enough before the next thing comes along. but if you want a practical bike for recreational use and you want to ride it for years and years, I would consider carefully how serviceable and upgradeable the bike is.
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I guess the opposite of "proprietary" parts for me is "standard." I don't really care if I've got a Bontrager seatpost or Cannondale cranks, as long as the interface is something I can replace the part with something else. (D-shaped seatpost is a great example!)
The problem is, there are so many "standards" that don't seem to last. I think we're on the third "standard" since the industry got away from square taper bottom brackets and cranks, for example. I'm just getting used to the idea that 31.0 handlebars may be here to stay.
I haven't quite talked myself into N+1 yet, but I'm giving serious consideration to a custom bike -- one that uses standard parts that I think can be serviced for the next 10-20 years.
The problem is, there are so many "standards" that don't seem to last. I think we're on the third "standard" since the industry got away from square taper bottom brackets and cranks, for example. I'm just getting used to the idea that 31.0 handlebars may be here to stay.
I haven't quite talked myself into N+1 yet, but I'm giving serious consideration to a custom bike -- one that uses standard parts that I think can be serviced for the next 10-20 years.
#8
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Often said 'One Thing about Standards, is there are so many of them'
Seems, Shimano being the big dog of the OEM component manufacturing .
often creates a standard others follow to get a slice of the after market.. of consumables..
Seems, Shimano being the big dog of the OEM component manufacturing .
often creates a standard others follow to get a slice of the after market.. of consumables..
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But the seatpost is not something you would replace often. It's not like a stem which you would have to replace to get the handlebar reach and height to your liking. You don't want a proprietary stem for sure.
For me, 'integrated' anything is bad news. You don't want the headset bearing race integrated into the frame. You wear out that headset, you throw away the frame? same with press fit bottom brackets- once these loosen up and start creaking your frame is good as done.
For me, 'integrated' anything is bad news. You don't want the headset bearing race integrated into the frame. You wear out that headset, you throw away the frame? same with press fit bottom brackets- once these loosen up and start creaking your frame is good as done.
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I think there have been some proprietary wheel specs. Either spacing or retention weirdness. I'd avoid anything that didn't let me use a variety of readily available wheels. Also, I wouldn't want a bottom bracket that would prevent me from using a Shimano crank w/o a kludge.
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Just read a thread about the Giant Escape using a "D-fuse" seatpost. A non-round seat tube/post would kill the deal for me personally. I could see one on a TT bike or other racing type aero bike, but on a hybrid? Trek uses a proprietary handlebar on their FX series (maybe others-I don't know). That would not stop me, as a handlebar is easily changed, if you like the bike enough. Sure there are other proprietary products out there that I am unaware of. Any of them that would stop you from purchasing a bike?
#14
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I'm fine with my proprietary Future Shock on my Roubaix, because it does what it's supposed to and what I expect. It's also pretty much the only proprietary part on the bike, which is nice. Think the following generation went D-shaped, so I have no buyer's remorse for not getting the latest.
I also dislike the D-fuse on my retired-to-indoor duty Contend SL Disc because it really didn't make riding noticeably more comfortable and wasn't superior to options that I'd have wanted to swap to if I could. I also steered clear of Giant's proprietary Conduct brakes.
I also dislike the D-fuse on my retired-to-indoor duty Contend SL Disc because it really didn't make riding noticeably more comfortable and wasn't superior to options that I'd have wanted to swap to if I could. I also steered clear of Giant's proprietary Conduct brakes.
#15
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I have no interest in proprietary anything, which is why my bikes are about as generalized as cycling can get.
My gravel bike uses a 3d printed downtube cable guide. That is the one exception, I suppose. But it isnt a high wear or impact product and if it does break that means the bike was involved in a horrific collision, so replacing that will be the least of my worries.
proprietary stem? no thanks
proprietary seatpost? no thanks
wonky workaround for rear wheel dishing? no thanks
inability to run a rack with disc brakes due to the thru axle? no thanks
fork chip to change the bike's trail? neat, but no thanks
integrated cockpit making it impossible to use bars you like? no thanks
integrated cockpit making it expensive to adjust reach? no thanks
integrated seatpost claim? no thanks
aeroshaped headset spacers? no thanks
limited cockpit options due to large 1 1/4 steerer tube for a road bike? no thanks
bottom bracket design beyond BSA? no thanks <---this isnt proprietary, but i am listing off what are effectively annoyances, so i included it.
etc etc etc.
My gravel bike uses a 3d printed downtube cable guide. That is the one exception, I suppose. But it isnt a high wear or impact product and if it does break that means the bike was involved in a horrific collision, so replacing that will be the least of my worries.
proprietary stem? no thanks
proprietary seatpost? no thanks
wonky workaround for rear wheel dishing? no thanks
inability to run a rack with disc brakes due to the thru axle? no thanks
fork chip to change the bike's trail? neat, but no thanks
integrated cockpit making it impossible to use bars you like? no thanks
integrated cockpit making it expensive to adjust reach? no thanks
integrated seatpost claim? no thanks
aeroshaped headset spacers? no thanks
limited cockpit options due to large 1 1/4 steerer tube for a road bike? no thanks
bottom bracket design beyond BSA? no thanks <---this isnt proprietary, but i am listing off what are effectively annoyances, so i included it.
etc etc etc.
#16
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My recumbents have some proprietary parts. For instance the fork on my lowracer: 406 wheel, disc brake, low-height crown, no rake, 80mm dropouts with the missing 20mm all on the drive side (non-symmetrical.) I got it as NOS and it was defective. What ya gonna do when it's the only one available??? Answer I had to fix it myself. My fork was pretty much a worst-case scenario in my book. Usually, what cannot be sourced from the manufacturer can usually be fabricated or replaced with something similar. A non-round seatpost would be, er, not preferred.
#17
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I can just about guarantee the current future shock on Specialized bikes will be non existent with no parts available 10 years from now. They have done this multiple times before. If one plans on having a bike for 20 years, get one that has no proprietary bits on it.
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I feel bad for people who I've seen going into shops with ten+ year old suspension stuff that is part of the frame. it's almost always totally not practical to service. Cannondale Silk Road, anything Cannondale Headshok/ older Lefty, Trek Top Fuel 98, Klein Palomino? it takes some digging to find anything to keep those bikes working and sometimes the owner is totally SOL or cannot find it reasonable to spend top dollar on NOS parts for something that old. those bikes could find a loving home somewhere if the owner takes the time to ebay them, but most of them end up scrap metal.
a lot of the "old" standards are still around though. I don't think hubs with 135mm axles and 6-bolt rotors are going to disappear for decades. the basic handlebar and seatpost widths are going anywhere. the BSA bottom bracket has turned out to be a very, very stubborn hanger-on.
a lot of the "old" standards are still around though. I don't think hubs with 135mm axles and 6-bolt rotors are going to disappear for decades. the basic handlebar and seatpost widths are going anywhere. the BSA bottom bracket has turned out to be a very, very stubborn hanger-on.
#19
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How standardized do you want to go? Is an out of the ordinary fork rake (43 or 45mm?) too proprietary because replacing it with an exact fit might be difficult? Would it even be noticeable if you used a different fork? What about cranks? Are you going to avoid using Shimano's asymmetric 4-bolt chainrings? Okay you want a round seatpost. Would a 26.0 would be acceptable since it's a somewhat standard size, but not very common? What if it uses a wedge binder instead of a clamp or binder bolt?
Ummm... my understanding was that the bearing seat is integrated into the frame, but the cartridge bearing could be replaced.
One could say most all indexing is part of an integrated shifting system. Only after a while did rear cluster spacing become a de facto standard. But cassette splines, cable pull, etc. are all integrated and mostly proprietary. Until they're copied enough.
I mean, are you going to wait until a well known standards body releases a specification? Great, then you might be able to buy road tubeless in a year or so.
You're not into mountain bikes then
And that's the problem with a lot of "standards": they're too easy to get the numbers wrong. Did you just make up a new standard handlebar diameter? 31.0 in addition to 31.8? And 25.4, 26.0, 26.2, and 35.0.
But I understand where you're coming from. If bike standards change so quickly and even old standard parts are hard to find, proprietary parts are even worse.
Obviously you have to either ride a bike into the ground or resell it quickly
Edit: oops I got really sidetracked. I'm fine with proprietary derailleur hangers, cassette internals, and.... okay not much if it can't easily be swapped with a somewhat standard part. I guess the main thing is that the opposite of "proprietary" isn't necessarily "standard."
For me, 'integrated' anything is bad news. You don't want the headset bearing race integrated into the frame. You wear out that headset, you throw away the frame? same with press fit bottom brackets- once these loosen up and start creaking your frame is good as done.
One could say most all indexing is part of an integrated shifting system. Only after a while did rear cluster spacing become a de facto standard. But cassette splines, cable pull, etc. are all integrated and mostly proprietary. Until they're copied enough.
I mean, are you going to wait until a well known standards body releases a specification? Great, then you might be able to buy road tubeless in a year or so.
And that's the problem with a lot of "standards": they're too easy to get the numbers wrong. Did you just make up a new standard handlebar diameter? 31.0 in addition to 31.8? And 25.4, 26.0, 26.2, and 35.0.
But I understand where you're coming from. If bike standards change so quickly and even old standard parts are hard to find, proprietary parts are even worse.
Obviously you have to either ride a bike into the ground or resell it quickly
Edit: oops I got really sidetracked. I'm fine with proprietary derailleur hangers, cassette internals, and.... okay not much if it can't easily be swapped with a somewhat standard part. I guess the main thing is that the opposite of "proprietary" isn't necessarily "standard."
Last edited by Geekage; 09-03-20 at 12:39 AM.
#20
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While not exactly proprietary, but a press fit BB would kill a potential bike purchase.
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I will not buy an MTB that uses a proprietary (or uncommon) shock size. Specialized used to do this all the time. Not sure if they still do.
#22
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I like what I'm used to, what works, and what is commonly available just about anywhere.
Heck, I don't even want disc brakes.
Heck, I don't even want disc brakes.
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#23
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Those stupid Giant seatposts are a big NO for me. I am fine with 27.2, 30.9 or 31.6 anything else just seems silly and the only reason I would include those larger sizes is for dropper posts and such. I have a couple bikes with odd sized seatposts (luckily still round and still easily able to find seatposts in the size 26.8 and 27.0) and wasn't too happy, the 27.0 was not intentional but the place I bought the bike from didn't properly measure so I had to hand sand a silver Thomson post to get it down to the size I needed.
Also not a huge fan of integrated bar and stem but most of the bikes I am interested in wouldn't likely have that and if it did I would have spec'd it and it would be a custom made set up for me. Pretty much anything that you cannot get from other manufacturers or cannot remove and replace with a more standard set up is out for me.
Also while not proprietary at least for most iterations a press fit bottom bracket is generally out. I don't want to say completely out because I have seen some frames that use it and I would consider it for a single speed set up or if I had one of Tinker Juarez's old Kleins.
Also not a huge fan of integrated bar and stem but most of the bikes I am interested in wouldn't likely have that and if it did I would have spec'd it and it would be a custom made set up for me. Pretty much anything that you cannot get from other manufacturers or cannot remove and replace with a more standard set up is out for me.
Also while not proprietary at least for most iterations a press fit bottom bracket is generally out. I don't want to say completely out because I have seen some frames that use it and I would consider it for a single speed set up or if I had one of Tinker Juarez's old Kleins.
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I built all of my bikes from the frame up. I also enjoy tinkering on them and from time to time will move parts from one bike to another. So, I definitely try to avoid proprietary, integrated and non-standard parts.
It also drives me crazy when there isn't even compatibility within a single brand - Campy Athena 11 speed and Potenza 11 speed, aaaarrrgghh.
It also drives me crazy when there isn't even compatibility within a single brand - Campy Athena 11 speed and Potenza 11 speed, aaaarrrgghh.
#25
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In 2013 I was in the market for a road bike. I got a deal on a NOS 2012 Cannondale Synapse 4, not realizing that it had a proprietary seatpost that was subsequently changed to standard profile in later models. It's fine this far, but I presume ba replacement will be hard to find if I need to replace it.
I hadn't had a road bike in the 20 years preceding that, so I wasn't up on those kinds of details.
I hadn't had a road bike in the 20 years preceding that, so I wasn't up on those kinds of details.