Grant Petersen: So Fun to Read, but Rivendell Doesn't Appeal To Me
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
2 Posts
Grant Petersen: So Fun to Read, but Rivendell Doesn't Appeal To Me
I just re-read "Just Ride" for a second time. It's such a fun, entertaining, and often hilarious read. It's deliberately provocative, which accounts for a large part of the fun factor.
Two things: I disagree with almost all of his arguments and claims. I am much, much more comfortable in cycling specific gear, nearly 100% of the time. I definitely benefit from having more than 8 gears. I have no doubt lifting kettle bells increases strength, but I'm not inclined to use them any time soon. And on it goes.
I've perused the limited selection of rivendells and not surprisingly, the bikes look like old fashioned slugs to me. Even though they're brand new, they reek of garage sale rust and cobwebs.
How can a cyclist's ideas be so much fun to entertain yet be so unappealing when applied to actual bike design?
Two things: I disagree with almost all of his arguments and claims. I am much, much more comfortable in cycling specific gear, nearly 100% of the time. I definitely benefit from having more than 8 gears. I have no doubt lifting kettle bells increases strength, but I'm not inclined to use them any time soon. And on it goes.
I've perused the limited selection of rivendells and not surprisingly, the bikes look like old fashioned slugs to me. Even though they're brand new, they reek of garage sale rust and cobwebs.
How can a cyclist's ideas be so much fun to entertain yet be so unappealing when applied to actual bike design?
Likes For tyrion:
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Left Coast, Canada
Posts: 5,126
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2236 Post(s)
Liked 1,314 Times
in
707 Posts
For me, the appeal is the difference between a consumerist approach to cycling and a more hands on approach.
Clothing apart (I too like the function of kit) the modern direction in cycling is overpriced and overly complicated to the point where riders no longer build or maintain their own bikes. Todays must have latest and greatest is next years has been obsolescence. The talked about marketing and price point is now aimed at the financially well off and I feel a little sad for young people who may want to get into the sport but face the perception that you need a 5-10K CF electronically shifted niche bike to be relevant.
GP breaks from that mold and offers a different POV. Wear normal clothes, have a simple bike you can afford and adjust yourself. Try to be real and avoid the plastic ego imagery.
Having said that, Riv bikes tend to be overpriced themselves, like the boutique version of homespun ideas, and the anti establishment flannel vibe can be as constraining as the neon lycra one. I tend to flow between both worlds. I like the Riv aesthetic but would probably never buy one because I could build my own far cheaper (and enjoy the process). I wear flannel and lycra depending and don't mind modern technology if it facilitates a goal.
Garage sale rust and cobwebs to me sounds like someone who is unfamiliar with doing and too familiar with buying. Pick up a hex wrench and get your hands a little dirty. Or avoid it all and get virtual high fives on the Peleton.
Clothing apart (I too like the function of kit) the modern direction in cycling is overpriced and overly complicated to the point where riders no longer build or maintain their own bikes. Todays must have latest and greatest is next years has been obsolescence. The talked about marketing and price point is now aimed at the financially well off and I feel a little sad for young people who may want to get into the sport but face the perception that you need a 5-10K CF electronically shifted niche bike to be relevant.
GP breaks from that mold and offers a different POV. Wear normal clothes, have a simple bike you can afford and adjust yourself. Try to be real and avoid the plastic ego imagery.
Having said that, Riv bikes tend to be overpriced themselves, like the boutique version of homespun ideas, and the anti establishment flannel vibe can be as constraining as the neon lycra one. I tend to flow between both worlds. I like the Riv aesthetic but would probably never buy one because I could build my own far cheaper (and enjoy the process). I wear flannel and lycra depending and don't mind modern technology if it facilitates a goal.
Garage sale rust and cobwebs to me sounds like someone who is unfamiliar with doing and too familiar with buying. Pick up a hex wrench and get your hands a little dirty. Or avoid it all and get virtual high fives on the Peleton.
Last edited by Happy Feet; 09-18-20 at 11:48 PM.
Likes For Happy Feet:
#4
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times
in
5,054 Posts
His bikes hold little appeal for me because I'm pretty comfortable doing century -plus rides on old steel racing bikes, so I get the beautiful lugged steel look at a fraction of the cost. I also love brifters and don't understand his aversion to them at all. But I don't see why agreeing or not agreeing with him has much to do with finding him an entertaining writer.
As to the clothes, I have no problem with people finding them more comfortable, I just get sick of people who put on airs just because I have no interest in cycling specific kit.
As to the clothes, I have no problem with people finding them more comfortable, I just get sick of people who put on airs just because I have no interest in cycling specific kit.
Likes For livedarklions:
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,879
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6963 Post(s)
Liked 10,963 Times
in
4,688 Posts
The made-in-Taiwan Rivendells are bargains: beautiful lugged steel, wonderful paint work, and many very fine aesthetic details. Depending on the model, you can pick up a frameset (frame, fork, headset, BB, and seatpost) for about $1500, which is a bargain for that kind of craftsmanship.
Likes For Koyote:
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Left Coast, Canada
Posts: 5,126
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2236 Post(s)
Liked 1,314 Times
in
707 Posts
The made-in-Taiwan Rivendells are bargains: beautiful lugged steel, wonderful paint work, and many very fine aesthetic details. Depending on the model, you can pick up a frameset (frame, fork, headset, BB, and seatpost) for about $1500, which is a bargain for that kind of craftsmanship.
If you don't want to do a lot of prep work a ready made frameset is nice. With a good eye, patience and elbow grease you can strip and refinished an old school rigid mtb for $50-$100. That savings allows me to add components to my bikes like Brooks saddles, good tires and nice grips if I choose.
I enjoy the process of the latter as a hobby in itself so the price differential is too great for me, but I don't look down on others who see it different.
Last edited by Happy Feet; 09-18-20 at 07:35 PM.
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 5,806
Bikes: 1986 Cannondale SR400 (Flat bar commuter), 1988 Cannondale Criterium XTR, 1992 Serotta T-Max, 1995 Trek 970
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1944 Post(s)
Liked 2,164 Times
in
1,323 Posts
I would think a lot of the appeal is generational. The appeal of a lot of vintage items breaks along generational lines where they peak as that generation looks back with more disposable income and wanes when the next generation has their perspective on what appeals to them.
30 or 40 years from now the golden age of gravel bikes will be the sought after vintage bike.
John
30 or 40 years from now the golden age of gravel bikes will be the sought after vintage bike.
John
Likes For 70sSanO:
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 4,077
Bikes: Velo Orange Piolet
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2228 Post(s)
Liked 2,011 Times
in
972 Posts
I have heard Grant say something like: he knows he's a niche player, and feels he needs to stay a niche player - he doesn't want to compete with the big brands because he'd lose on economies of scale. I imagine it's getting more difficult for Riv now that gravel bikes are encroaching on their territory.
Likes For tyrion:
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,879
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6963 Post(s)
Liked 10,963 Times
in
4,688 Posts
I can see both sides.
If you don't want to do a lot of prep work a ready made frameset is nice. With a good eye, patience and elbow grease you can strip and refinished an old school rigid mtb for $50-$100. That savings allows me to add components to my bikes like Brooks saddles, good tires and nice grips if I choose.
I enjoy the process of the latter as a hobby in itself so the price differential is too great for me, but I don't look down on others who see it different.
If you don't want to do a lot of prep work a ready made frameset is nice. With a good eye, patience and elbow grease you can strip and refinished an old school rigid mtb for $50-$100. That savings allows me to add components to my bikes like Brooks saddles, good tires and nice grips if I choose.
I enjoy the process of the latter as a hobby in itself so the price differential is too great for me, but I don't look down on others who see it different.
I'm gonna bet that the OP has never seen a Riv in person. I've never seen one that was short of stunning.
Last edited by Koyote; 09-18-20 at 08:31 PM.
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Napa Valley, CA
Posts: 908
Bikes: Wife says I have too many :-)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 327 Post(s)
Liked 250 Times
in
158 Posts
What a sad topic for the BF !
Why do you want to trash Rivendell ? We get it that you don't like his bikes and you don't agree with Grant Petersons philosophy but no need to try and undermine his enterprise. They reek of garage rust and cobwebs, really ? Find a "constructive" topic.
Why do you want to trash Rivendell ? We get it that you don't like his bikes and you don't agree with Grant Petersons philosophy but no need to try and undermine his enterprise. They reek of garage rust and cobwebs, really ? Find a "constructive" topic.
Last edited by frogman; 09-18-20 at 08:28 PM.
Likes For frogman:
Likes For TugaDude:
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,949
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3952 Post(s)
Liked 7,297 Times
in
2,947 Posts
Never heard of the book before reading this thread, so I downloaded a copy and read it. For those that haven't read it, it reads like a collection of troll thread topics. Let's just say I'm glad I didn't pay anything for the book.
Likes For tomato coupe:
#13
Guest
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 2,888
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1346 Post(s)
Liked 3,270 Times
in
1,439 Posts
I, for one, am glad that I live in a world with people like Grant Petersen in it. There's still plenty of carpet fiber racing bikes, lycra kit, watts meters, and bike bro attitude for those who are into it. I think it's great to have at least one company that flips the bird at modernity.
Likes For Rolla:
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,595
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 608 Post(s)
Liked 352 Times
in
225 Posts
Snipped. . .
I've perused the limited selection of rivendells and not surprisingly, the bikes look like old fashioned slugs to me. Even though they're brand new, they reek of garage sale rust and cobwebs.
How can a cyclist's ideas be so much fun to entertain yet be so unappealing when applied to actual bike design?
I've perused the limited selection of rivendells and not surprisingly, the bikes look like old fashioned slugs to me. Even though they're brand new, they reek of garage sale rust and cobwebs.
How can a cyclist's ideas be so much fun to entertain yet be so unappealing when applied to actual bike design?
I also would like to say I love the bolded text above. Those are great descriptors and gave me a chuckle.
Happy cycling.
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 1,680
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 980 Post(s)
Liked 776 Times
in
402 Posts
I just re-read "Just Ride" for a second time. It's such a fun, entertaining, and often hilarious read. It's deliberately provocative, which accounts for a large part of the fun factor.
Two things: I disagree with almost all of his arguments and claims. I am much, much more comfortable in cycling specific gear, nearly 100% of the time. I definitely benefit from having more than 8 gears. I have no doubt lifting kettle bells increases strength, but I'm not inclined to use them any time soon. And on it goes.
I've perused the limited selection of rivendells and not surprisingly, the bikes look like old fashioned slugs to me. Even though they're brand new, they reek of garage sale rust and cobwebs.
How can a cyclist's ideas be so much fun to entertain yet be so unappealing when applied to actual bike design?
Two things: I disagree with almost all of his arguments and claims. I am much, much more comfortable in cycling specific gear, nearly 100% of the time. I definitely benefit from having more than 8 gears. I have no doubt lifting kettle bells increases strength, but I'm not inclined to use them any time soon. And on it goes.
I've perused the limited selection of rivendells and not surprisingly, the bikes look like old fashioned slugs to me. Even though they're brand new, they reek of garage sale rust and cobwebs.
How can a cyclist's ideas be so much fun to entertain yet be so unappealing when applied to actual bike design?
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Kips Bay, NY
Posts: 2,212
Bikes: Ritchey Swiss Cross | Teesdale Kona Hot | Haro Extreme | Specialized Stumpjumper Comp | Cannondale F1000 | Shogun 1000 | Cannondale M500 | Norco Charger | Marin Muirwoods 29er | Shogun Kaze | Breezer Lightning
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 576 Post(s)
Liked 1,001 Times
in
488 Posts
I just re-read "Just Ride" for a second time. It's such a fun, entertaining, and often hilarious read. It's deliberately provocative, which accounts for a large part of the fun factor.
Two things: I disagree with almost all of his arguments and claims. I am much, much more comfortable in cycling specific gear, nearly 100% of the time. I definitely benefit from having more than 8 gears. I have no doubt lifting kettle bells increases strength, but I'm not inclined to use them any time soon. And on it goes.
I've perused the limited selection of rivendells and not surprisingly, the bikes look like old fashioned slugs to me. Even though they're brand new, they reek of garage sale rust and cobwebs.
How can a cyclist's ideas be so much fun to entertain yet be so unappealing when applied to actual bike design?
Two things: I disagree with almost all of his arguments and claims. I am much, much more comfortable in cycling specific gear, nearly 100% of the time. I definitely benefit from having more than 8 gears. I have no doubt lifting kettle bells increases strength, but I'm not inclined to use them any time soon. And on it goes.
I've perused the limited selection of rivendells and not surprisingly, the bikes look like old fashioned slugs to me. Even though they're brand new, they reek of garage sale rust and cobwebs.
How can a cyclist's ideas be so much fun to entertain yet be so unappealing when applied to actual bike design?
Rivbike and that book have been out for decades by now. Where have you been?
Likes For DorkDisk:
#17
Senior Member
What I find most interesting is that Rivendell was way ahead of the curve 30 years ago, and just because they don't have carbon or alum frames and forks they are considered old looking and garage sale worthy. Grant Peterson created the gravel road category back in the 90's and every Riv is capable of such riding plus so much more. They are the definitive bike for gravel and all others constantly attempt to meet that definition. Race bike they are not, but seriously, how many of BF readers are race worthy themselves and utilize a race bike to its full potential? 10% at the very most?
Likes For TiHabanero:
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 1,851
Bikes: Lemond '01 Maillot Jaune, Lemond '02 Victoire, Lemond '03 Poprad, Lemond '03 Wayzata DB conv(Poprad), '79 AcerMex Windsor Carrera Professional(pur new), '88 GT Tequesta(pur new), '01 Bianchi Grizzly, 1993 Trek 970 DB conv, Trek 8900 DB conv
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 759 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 810 Times
in
471 Posts
What a sad topic for the BF !
Why do you want to trash Rivendell ? We get it that you don't like his bikes and you don't agree with Grant Petersons philosophy but no need to try and undermine his enterprise. They reek of garage rust and cobwebs, really ? Find a "constructive" topic.
Why do you want to trash Rivendell ? We get it that you don't like his bikes and you don't agree with Grant Petersons philosophy but no need to try and undermine his enterprise. They reek of garage rust and cobwebs, really ? Find a "constructive" topic.
Another loser added to the ignore list. It's been growing at a healthy pace in recent months.
Likes For fishboat:
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,380
Bikes: 1982 Bianchi Sport SX, Rayleigh Tamland 1, Rans V-Rex recumbent, Fuji MTB, 80's Cannondale MTB with BBSHD ebike motor
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 668 Post(s)
Liked 529 Times
in
355 Posts
Which might have been the intent of the original post.
I enjoyed the book. The guy got whiny and preachy at times, but if one can't handle that than don't hang out on this web site.
As for his approach to riding as the saying goes don't stretch the seams in trying on the coat. I feel his biggest message was just enjoy riding and don't get so caught up in what others think.
You may laugh at his advise for kettle balls/yoga, but I can barely walk these days due to too much riding and not enough alternative exercises. Things change as you get older, I'm in PT to rehab tight hip muscles. Sucks, this honestly has me worrying if I will ever ride week long tours again.
I enjoyed the book. The guy got whiny and preachy at times, but if one can't handle that than don't hang out on this web site.
As for his approach to riding as the saying goes don't stretch the seams in trying on the coat. I feel his biggest message was just enjoy riding and don't get so caught up in what others think.
You may laugh at his advise for kettle balls/yoga, but I can barely walk these days due to too much riding and not enough alternative exercises. Things change as you get older, I'm in PT to rehab tight hip muscles. Sucks, this honestly has me worrying if I will ever ride week long tours again.
Last edited by Pop N Wood; 09-19-20 at 06:08 AM.
Likes For Pop N Wood:
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 20,435
Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones
Mentioned: 178 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5888 Post(s)
Liked 3,471 Times
in
2,079 Posts
What I find most interesting is that Rivendell was way ahead of the curve 30 years ago, and just because they don't have carbon or alum frames and forks they are considered old looking and garage sale worthy. Grant Peterson created the gravel road category back in the 90's and every Riv is capable of such riding plus so much more. They are the definitive bike for gravel and all others constantly attempt to meet that definition. Race bike they are not, but seriously, how many of BF readers are race worthy themselves and utilize a race bike to its full potential? 10% at the very most?
Likes For bikemig:
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,448
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 874 Post(s)
Liked 2,287 Times
in
1,278 Posts
There are some who love Rivindel Bikes and others that do not. I am another vintage road bike rider so I can get a classic with full Campagnolo for a lot less. This is just me, I like cleaning up and getting neglected racers back on the road. I like the way the bikes(Riv) look but it just is not my style. Grant has always been very supportive of the cycling community and is a great writer, although with a strong opinion, I find his work enjoyable. Bike forums is about information and opinion and the OP just stated his opinion. As long as we don't bash someone I see no harm. Rivendel is a niche bike and attracts criticisms from time to time.
Likes For Kabuki12:
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 1,851
Bikes: Lemond '01 Maillot Jaune, Lemond '02 Victoire, Lemond '03 Poprad, Lemond '03 Wayzata DB conv(Poprad), '79 AcerMex Windsor Carrera Professional(pur new), '88 GT Tequesta(pur new), '01 Bianchi Grizzly, 1993 Trek 970 DB conv, Trek 8900 DB conv
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 759 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 810 Times
in
471 Posts
#24
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,973
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,536 Times
in
1,045 Posts
Likes For I-Like-To-Bike:
#25
I'm the anecdote.
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: S.E. Texas
Posts: 1,822
Bikes: '12 Schwinn, '13 Norco
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1110 Post(s)
Liked 1,176 Times
in
795 Posts
I just re-read "Just Ride" for a second time. It's such a fun, entertaining, and often hilarious read. It's deliberately provocative, which accounts for a large part of the fun factor.
Two things: I disagree with almost all of his arguments and claims. I am much, much more comfortable in cycling specific gear, nearly 100% of the time. I definitely benefit from having more than 8 gears. I have no doubt lifting kettle bells increases strength, but I'm not inclined to use them any time soon. And on it goes.
I've perused the limited selection of rivendells and not surprisingly, the bikes look like old fashioned slugs to me. Even though they're brand new, they reek of garage sale rust and cobwebs.
How can a cyclist's ideas be so much fun to entertain yet be so unappealing when applied to actual bike design?
Two things: I disagree with almost all of his arguments and claims. I am much, much more comfortable in cycling specific gear, nearly 100% of the time. I definitely benefit from having more than 8 gears. I have no doubt lifting kettle bells increases strength, but I'm not inclined to use them any time soon. And on it goes.
I've perused the limited selection of rivendells and not surprisingly, the bikes look like old fashioned slugs to me. Even though they're brand new, they reek of garage sale rust and cobwebs.
How can a cyclist's ideas be so much fun to entertain yet be so unappealing when applied to actual bike design?
Funny thing about Petersen's commentary on 8 gears. My current two bikes are an 8-speed and a 1-speed, and I really only use up to 4 gears on that 8-speed since it isn't hilly here. Plenty of wind, though.
Some of his bodily health ideas don't jibe with mine, but others do. Not everyone is built the same, so one example is that I have to hydrate before a ride and not "wait until I'm thirsty". I'd pass the hell out otherwise.
The funny thing is, I bet that many of the riders that Mr. Petersen wrote that book for never read the book or even know that it exists.
Last edited by FiftySix; 09-19-20 at 08:20 AM. Reason: grammar? Don't judge me, English teacher.
Likes For FiftySix: